Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28

Thread: Ceramic coating intake manifold

  1. #1
    Former User Conversion King Joshstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    2,114

    Default Ceramic coating intake manifold

    I have been designing a new intake manifold for my 3S and have got to the stage of thinking about thermal issues. I know ceramic coating exhaust manifolds is common practice but I haven't seen it done for intake manifolds. The stock 3S maifold on my engine at the moment often gets to 50-60 degrees on cruise and in traffic which is hotter than the intake air travelling through it.

    Now I know I could make a thermal barrier gasket which works reasonably well. The thing I don't like about that is my engine is already making a truck load of heat in the combustion chamber and as far as I can tell the intake manifold is a fairly significant heat sink hanging off the side of the head. Stopping the manifold from heating up would in theory cause the head temperature to increase, which I don't think is optimal.

    So my theory is to get the inside of the intake manifold coated with a thermal barrier coating and then potentially also coat the outside with a thermal dispersant. My concern with this plan is I really don't want to go pumping pieces of ceramic coating through my engine and turbo if it comes off the manifold.

    Has anyone seen this done before or would like to add their idea's?

  2. #2
    Junior Member Carport Converter TA-022's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,616

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    I thought the ides of ceramic coating on a exhaust manifold was to keep heat in and not affect items around it etc.

    So wouldnt this be bad on the intake side seeing as cooler intake is preffered? By coating it i believe you would raise your intake temps.
    Black Betty >HERE!<

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  3. #3
    Former User Conversion King Joshstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    2,114

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    The idea is to keep the heat from going from the hot area to the cold area. On the xhaust side that is the exhaust gas to the manifold. On the intake side it is manifold to intake charge.

    The idea is to keep the heat out of the intake charge by putting a thermal barrier coating on the iside of the manifold.

  4. #4
    GT4 Freak, and Conversion King Squid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ACT
    Posts
    2,358

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    I would have thought that intake temps were most effected by convection from the head/ports/valve area, and the metal was reponsible for removing heat, not adding to it... But I can see what your getting at, just don't know if it would work...

    Make 2 manifolds, dyno test them, temperature test them, give me the one you aren't happy with and I will either coat the inside or remove the coating depending on your test results!!

    I am interested in your 3s intake manifold design tho, it is something that disappoints me when I look at the 3s and I don't like everyone's answer of up the boost and shell be right... there are gains to be made, and if they can be made at lower boost, that is better!
    ST185 GrpA #116
    ST165 GT4 Project Car - Soon with v6 goodness.

    The glass is neither half empty nor half full, rather the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota TooF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    5,741

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    im not sure if you are on the mr2yahoogroups mailing list but a similar issue came up recently in terms of thermal barrier gaskets/spacers.

    im not convinced how much heat is actually dissapated to the inlet charge air via the manifold.

    the inside of the manifold has a relativly small surface area in terms of a heat exhanger. and also the residence time of the air in the manfiold isnt exactly all that long.

    id be skeptical of just how much heat the manifold delivers to the air flowing though it.. dont get me wrong provide some testing numbers or some modelled numbers that suggest otherwise and im happy to accept them.

    i just have the thought that you might be chasing your tail over an almost nothing ammount of heat (when compared to heat from the compression of the air)

  6. #6
    Forum Sponsor Conversion King
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    2,583

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    fenolic spacers seem to work well on some of the eurotrash i have come through here but not shore on a 3s.
    ben ellis had the inside coated black on the pipes and intake on his 1jz
    just make sure you use a reputable coater as i have heard of coating flaking off.
    ceramic vs pistons and bore i know which one will win.

  7. #7
    Junior Member Carport Converter TA-022's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    1,616

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    my bad didnt realise it would be internal coating
    Black Betty >HERE!<

    (\__/)
    (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
    (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Qld
    Posts
    5,590

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    phenolic spacer plate and a re-think of air flow in the engine bay would be the way to transfer of heat from head to manifold.

    Given the low mass of the air charge and the limited surface area inside the manifold, coating it isn't going to do much unless the car is a peak-hour commuter car (low speed heat soak).

    My setup has the manifold and plenum going over the top of the engine to right next to the turbo - it's the stationary heat soak that pumps up air temps. Once underway, or with significant air-flow speeds (e.g. rmp over 2k or boost at any speed) the heat-soaked manifold isn't much of an issue except for assisting vapourisation of fuel (from poor injector placement).

    Given that most of the heat comes the turbo, its the performance of the intercooler that you should be focussing on (imho).
    ------------------------------
    ST185 road barge / MZ11 forest barge / RA65 garage barge

  9. #9
    Former User Conversion King Joshstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    2,114

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    Quote Originally Posted by thechuckster
    Given that most of the heat comes the turbo, its the performance of the intercooler that you should be focussing on (imho).
    A big hit of boost pulls the manifold temperature down significantly. Now this tells me two things:
    1. The manifold is hotter then the air that is going through it
    2. There is a substantial transfer of heat from the manifold to the intake air.


    I guess I'll just make up my own mind on this one and decide if the benefits are woth the money invested.

  10. #10
    Forum Member 1st year Apprentice
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    From what i have been informed, these guys have made a few for 4EFTE engines and for the 3SGTE engines.

    http://www.outlawengineering.com

    The starlet ones were about 100US for both inlet manifold and throttle body, and just the inlet manifold were about 60US.

    Ivan

  11. #11
    AVGAS DRINKING Carport Converter 30psi 4agte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    S.A
    Posts
    1,457

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    Its Fairly common practice to coat inlet manifolds. This is especially usefull to the V8 guys where the manifold sits on top of a hot engine block and between two hot heads.

    Josh: In you situation with the 3s designed the way it is, It would prob be a good advantage to give some sort of barrier and keep the heat soak effects to a minimum.


    Give " Ceramic coat Australia " a call here in S.A . He will beable to give you a more indepth reason as to the major advantages to it.

    The guy (forget his name but no him by face ) is an absolute champ and i couldnt speak more highly of him.

    Their web site goes into the benefits abit better

    (08) 8354 2066

    http://www.pacemaker.com.au/ceramic_coat.html

  12. #12
    I would like to be a Backyard Mechanic 3t-RA40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    179

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    Josh, also have a chat to Stuart @ Procoat Ceramic Coating - Unit 1 / 1 Clare Mace Cres, Berkeley Vale NSW 2261 02 43889946 or 0407895044. Real nice guy to talk with and also sponsors Shane 1JZ 747's Cressida. I was talking to him during the week about my new turbo exhaust mainfold I just made.
    Cheers,
    Neil.
    RA40 3t-gte. Haltech fitted.
    Power - 229hp at 17psi
    Toyota Nationals 2013, Easter Long Weekend, Dubbo, NSW

    http://www.toyota-nationals.org.au/

  13. #13
    7M-BHGE Automotive Encyclopaedia
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    810

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    You need to keep the intake manifold interior course, if the ceramic was smooth you with get the fuel disasociating from the air.

    Coating the outside would achieve the same effect for what you want, dont know if it will work how you want though.
    Quote Originally Posted by skiddz
    deodorised fish oil = winnnaaaaaa, goodness of teh fishz but with out the smellz

  14. #14
    I'm no Domestic Engineer Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    614

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    coating the outside only surely would keep the head/valve heat inside manifold and so it would transfor to the air = what you're trying to avoid here.

    Coating the inside only would keep the head/valve heat in the manifold too, but would allow it to transfer the the athmosphere where you'd want it to go.

    Keeping the inside rough would provide more surface area and so might result in a raised inlet temperate. It might also slightly sow down the air's passage and so would allow more time for heat to transfer from the manifold to the inlet air, thus compounding the surface area problem.
    Strong like horse, smort like tractor!
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

  15. #15
    Junior Member Too Much Toyota
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Qld
    Posts
    5,590

    Default Re: Ceramic coating intake manifold

    the key to the problem is how does the heat get to the intake manifold?
    -thru it's connection to the head
    -from the heat in the air charge coming form the turbo
    -radiant heat in the engine bay (from the bock and the radiators)

    So the solutions might be:
    -an insulating space between head and manifold
    -more efficient intercooler
    -improved/modified engine bay ventilation.
    ------------------------------
    ST185 road barge / MZ11 forest barge / RA65 garage barge

Similar Threads

  1. 185 3S custom intake manifold
    By Wildsupra in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
  2. Adapting Ford 2.0 Intake Manifold to 2T/3T
    By restorolla in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-09-2006, 07:56 PM
  3. Helmholtz resonance intake manifold vibration
    By TurboRA28 in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 31-07-2006, 09:50 PM
  4. Ceramic Coating Brake Calipers
    By Dom-AE71 in forum Tech and Conversions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 26-02-2006, 09:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •