I need help setting the timing on my 4k. *sort of fixed*

[Aust162]

Hi everyone, i wanted to check the timing on the 4kc in my KE70.

I marked the crank pulley with a white marker and i noticed that there were two markings the same on the pulley. I marked both of them anyway.

I warmed the car up and set up the timing light. My experience is limitted here. In a North/South configuration (the 4k) is cyl #1 at the back, near the firewall?

I loosened the 12mm bolt on the dissy and adjusted it, but the gun was flashing no where near the scale. Neither of the marks were near it. It was flashing about half way between the two.

I tried all the leads and it was the same result. Both marks were way off the timing scale.

I tried upping the idle to get one of the marks on the timing scale but the car ran horrible, and barely idled.

Am i doing something wrong? Is maybe the timing chain set wrong on the gear?

Any help appreciated.

thanks

[leso]

Mate in a rear wheel drive car...Number one cyl is the one closest to the radiator.. assumeing you have a points distributor...you can set your timing staticly if you need a starting point..if you need any info on how to do this just ask.

cheers leso

[Aust162]

Thanks Leso, i got confused about that. So i need the timing gun connector on the lead closes to the radiator. cyl #1?

The car has points ignition. I'm not sure how set this either. I have a dwell meter sitting here too which i was told you can use to set the points.

[love ke70]

yes, front cylinder.
and there should only be one mark in the pulley.

to try and find the mark, maybe turn the engine over, either looking down the hole of cylinder 1, or with a screw driver in there, and turn motor over by hand to the point where the piston is at the top of its stroke.
then look on the pulley to try and find the mark of TDC.
it should be around the 0* mark on the timing marks with cylinder 1 at TDC.

once u have definately identified the mark, you can then time the motor

[Aust162]

Thanks Love_keto

Will the rpm of the idle affect the timing at all? Since i got the car it seems to idle happily around 1000rpm. Even though under the bonnet it suggests 750rpm.

[JetspeedCamry]

When i did the timing on my friends KE70 next door, it was idling at 1000rpm. Seemed to be the normal when warm.

[leso]

Okies...here's what ya need to do... remove #1 spark plug, then put a ratchet and socket on the crank pulley nut. Turn the engine in a clockwise direction as viewed from the front, at the same time hold a finger or thumb over the hole where the sparkplug used to be... keep turning the engine until you feel some pressure on your finger...this means #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke. You may have to turn the engine a fair bit , 'cause #1 piston can be at the top but inbetween the exhaust and inlet stroke. When this happens remove finger and put a screwdriver down the hole, slowly keep turning the engine until you can feel the piston is at the top...go a little bit past and you will feel the piston going down.. slowly turn the engine backwards until the piston is at the top...THIS IS TOP DEAD CENTRE..or TDC...

If your engine has only one mark on the crank pulley, it should be about 10mm past the pointer...if it has two it should be on the mark to the left. In the case of two marks the one on the right will be your timing mark ie BEFORE TDC ('cause your engine rotates clockwise when viewed from the front.

To set your static timing you turn on your ignition..remove distributor cap...move your crank pulley to the desired timing postion...then loosen the distributor....slowly move the dizzy until the points open...you should see a small spark. This is when the ignition will fire #1...

And yes when you rev you car the timing will move to the right, so it is important to set your base timing at idle speed...

Hope this helps...leso

[love ke70]

at 1000 rpm will be fine. set it at 8*
750 is low for a 4k. i think its just their age. but ive never had a new one to confirm they do idle at 750.

[MRMOPARMAN]

Hi everyone, i wanted to check the timing on the 4kc in my KE70.

I marked the crank pulley with a white marker and i noticed that there were two markings the same on the pulley. I marked both of them anyway.

I warmed the car up and set up the timing light. My experience is limitted here. In a North/South configuration (the 4k) is cyl #1 at the back, near the firewall?

I loosened the 12mm bolt on the dissy and adjusted it, but the gun was flashing no where near the scale. Neither of the marks were near it. It was flashing about half way between the two.

I tried all the leads and it was the same result. Both marks were way off the timing scale.

I tried upping the idle to get one of the marks on the timing scale but the car ran horrible, and barely idled.

Am i doing something wrong? Is maybe the timing chain set wrong on the gear?

Any help appreciated.

thanks

ok for the 2nd time (stupid mouse buttons)

to use the dwell meter, connect the red/positive lead up to the NEGITIVE side of the coil, and the black/negitive lead goes to earth. start and run the car at idle, the dwell should be in between 48-52 degress. if this is out you will need to checj condition and adjust the points. a good baseline to set the points at is .018".

did you connect the timing light lead to no4 when ya checked it the first time? if so thats why it was between the 2 marks. connect the timing light up to the closest cyl to the radiator\ no1 cyl, and it should be close to one of the marks.
to set disconnect and plug the vacuum hose that goes to the distributor, then run the vehicle with the timing light as you have done previously. keep the idle around 850rpmish to set it.
when you played with the distributor and it lowered the idle, that was retarding timing (firing plug later). the aim is to advance the timing as much as possible without the engine pinging.
this can be done on the road under high load +low RPM conditions, keep advancing until the engine starts pinging, then back off until it just stops pinging, then back it off just a smidgen more. you wont need a timing light this way.

do the dwell before you do the timing.

if the car was running good before you played with it then the dissy hasnt skipped a tooth.

edit:
old dissys have internal centrifugal weights inside em that changes the timing when you rev the engine. although this usually shouldnt start occuring to 1200ish rpm depending on vehicle, over time the weights can sieze or sometimes fatigue. so check the timing at 750-900rpm just to be safe.
you can check to make sure the weights arent siezed by either grabbing the dissy rotor and gently turning it backwards the opposite way to how it normally rotates. the should be some give. alternately once you've finished setting the timing, rev the engine up slowly to about 3000rpm with the timing light focused on the crank pully. the timing marks should advance as the engine revs increase.

hope this helps.

cameron.

[Aust162]

Top stuff. ^ i'll try this tonight.

+ rep.

[love ke70]

ok for the 2nd time (stupid mouse buttons)
when you played with the distributor and it lowered the idle, that was retarding timing (firing plug later). the aim is to advance the timing as much as possible without the engine pinging.
this can be done on the road under high load +low RPM conditions, keep advancing until the engine starts pinging, then back off until it just stops pinging, then back it off just a smidgen more. you wont need a timing light this way.

do the dwell before you do the timing.

if the car was running good before you played with it then the dissy hasnt skipped a tooth.

hope this helps.

cameron.

DO NOT advance the timing "as far as possible" before pinging, then wind it back.
this works as a very dodgy method, but a timing light and manufacturers specs are best.
for what its worth, running 95 octane you can run well over 20 degrees advance without pinging. after a point tho, it wont ping. you can just feel in the motor its not helping it make power.
if its a stock 4K, just set it at 8* and be happy.
more than this you have to use more revs as it is knock happy in the lower revs, and just reduces fuel economy without improving performance to any great extent...

[MRMOPARMAN]

the manufacturers in my experience have set their timing specs at a "safe setting". the method is not 'dodgey', its how most of the old school mechanics used to do timing, and how they taught me. i have done it on every car ive had equipped with a distributor and my mates/customers etc and never once have i had a problem.

some cars show little improvement, most show a noticable difference, as long as your not expecting miracles. unless the engine is VERY tired generally you wont get a hell of a lot more timing into it anyways. oh and in most cases it does improve economy slightly. it never gets worse anyways.

oh and like i said you tune it AT low revs + high load as thats where its most prone to knock. if its knocking you have gone too far and like i said take the timing back until it doesnt ping, then a smidgen more.

one of the most receptive car ive had to advancing the timing was my 3k powered ke25.

[love ke70]

guess we are both just sharing opinion.
one 15 degrees my 4k would knock on low revs high load. even 10 it does its best...
each to their own
ive got best economy on standard 8* but that could be due to a carby kit aswell...

[Aust162]

Well i fiddled with the dwell meter and timing gun again. I got the dwell around 45degrees (i couldnt get it to 52degrees for some reason). I pulled no#1 plug out and found TDC and marked the crank. I set the timing at roughly 8-10degrees.

The reason why i originally wanted to check the time was because i hadn't done it before on this motor ; and i just fitted extractors to it, and the car seems to run strange afterwards.

Since the extractors went on, its developed a flat spot in the rev range. Around 2200-3000rpm it bogs down now. The car still has the original diameter exhaust on it (which i welded the extractor up to). Is it possible the motor is getting choked? After 3000rpm its got a fair kick of power (for a 4kc). Its got more go over 3000rpm since the extractors went on.

Its got new points,new cap,rotor, new ngk plugs and a "modified" air cleaner assembly. The whole car has only done 84,000kms, so its pretty fresh.

Any ideas why its got this flat spot now?

[love ke70]

modified?
you drilled holes in the air cleaning housing didnt you

id do a carby kit and retune the carby.
pick yourself up a gregorys manual to talk you thru tuning if your unsure. but they are pretty simple to work on.

id be assuming that with only 84K on it the car has spent a fair time sitting and the seals in the carby are none so great.
cheers, andrew