Bit of a problem with 1993 ST184, TIMING RELATED

[trd-st162]

I just checked the timing of my 5sfe,

I did the usual shorting of TE1 and E1
Then afterwards put my attachment lead on lead 1 with the arrow facing the spark plug

I went to look at the distributor position and its ALL the way DOWN,
there is no more adjustment
I went to check the timing and to my suprise found it on 18 degrees
The second i connect up TE1 and E1 the car nearly stalls, it goes down to about 400-500rpm and it starts stuttering.
I'm wondering if anyone can help

if i adjust the dizzy the other way around it will RAISE the timing even more
Is something a miss?
Its had a rebuild, thinkin the dizzy might have been put in wrong or the timing belt is off 1 cog
Oh and also the car won't rev more than 5000rpm before i did this test

Thanks
Adrian!

[2jzhilux]

sounds like timing belt may be out 1 tooth and someone has adjusted the distributor to compensate
check the timing and move the dizzy the way where there is adjustment is and if you cant get it too 10 degrees this is what would be wrong

[trd-st162]

Yea i was thinkin something along those lines,
How would that relate to in terms of performance?
Would that mean the car would not rev past the 5000rpm?

[2jzhilux]

yeah it would and the car would have not much responce down low but it can be helped by adjusting the dizzy but that is probably what happened

to confirm it set your crank pulley to tdc on 0 degrees and then remove your front engine mount and top cover and check inside your cam gear there will be a small hole at the top check inside there with a torch and mirror to see if the mark lines up
no need to remove all the covers

[trd-st162]

yea i'll have to have a look its not too bad to get to
The front engine mount has to come off?
Would the drivers side come off instead?

Thanks again for ur help!

[2jzhilux]

yeah sorry i meant front of engine

[thechuckster]

sounds familiar ... harmonic balancer may have failed so outer ring of crank pulley may have slipped around inner section due to rubber bit disintegrating.

Have now seen this happen to 2 x 6Ms and have sighted a 1J crank pulley with same failure.

[Dale]

Seconded that the timing belt is probably out a tooth or two AND the harmonic balancer has failed giving an innacurate timing mark... saw the same scenario just a couple of weeks ago

[trd-st162]

I was going to take it to a mechanic,
What makes me wonder is.

Why is the dizzy THAT far retarded and the timing belt would be out,
What i think they've done is, set it badly and compensated with the dizzy
Its going to a mechanic on monday for him to make sure the timing belt is on the right tooth!

Dunno about the harmonic balancer being out though as when the E1 pin is shorted etc the car will barely idle!
Mind u the car will actually STOP revving at 4800 rpm
and then go into like a rev limit
sounds like an electronic rev limit!

[Bobomacho]

the compensating happens all the time. The lazy mechanics who don't do the simple jobs properly are the culprits. after removal of the belt etc. and after reassemble, if its a tooth out its easy enough to just compensate by adjusting the dizzy either way.

a way of checking if the balancer has slipped is to take out spark plug one, put a long screw driver or rod into the hole. turn the engine over by HAND, until you notice that piston one has reached the top (top dead centre). you may need to turn it over once more because its 2 rotations of the cams per crank shaft rotation. check that the harmonic balancer marking is accurately on the 'zero' marking located on the timing case cover. if you are CERTAIN it is not on zero, get some whiteout and mark your own 'tdc' marking on the balancer and re adjust the timing.

see how you go

[trd-st162]

Good idea,
I was thinkin though that it might still be the timing belt on wrong as the car wont rev more than 4800 rpm, and believe its an electrical problem. The revs actually stop.

It had a rebuild by HM GEM which is partly the problem i believe. Friends have had their cars done by them before and they had to get the motor rebuilt due to "metal shaving" markings found in the piston bore which resulted in oil passing through!

[Bobomacho]

start with the easy basics. if your balancer isn't aligned correctly due to poor assembly or the rubber on it is screwed, no matter on your 'markings' it'll be shit regardless if its set up to 'manu. specs.'
put the balancer to zero again, remove the dizzy and ensure that it is firing to piston 1 or you can see that there is a line in the dizzy housing and dimple on the rotor end (or vice versa) line that up and u shoudl be sweet in that department.
do as ecohilux said, check the timing marks on zero for balancer, and the hole in the cam pulley lines up with the line on the rocker cover or head. if it does not line up, its either the belt is a tooth or two out or if they are mega shit then it could be the wrong belt! (to check see if the tensioner pulley spring is ridiculously stretched out).

did this problem arise? or was it liek this when u got it back from the guys who rebuilt it.
if it was liek this when they gave it to you get in there with a breaker bar and threaten them so they do the job properly instead of being lazy cocks (warranty ofcourse)

oh yer some +rep woudl be nice i wanna buy/sell some stuff from the forums lol

[Dale]

on S series motors the notch in the crank pulley (the actual crank pulley for the cam belt not the harmonic balancer) lines up with a mark cast into the block at TDC, I always use this to line it up since it IS accurate, balancers however may not be - whoever fitted the belt may not be completely at fault considering it sounds like the balancer is fucked therefore the mark for 0 degrees would be out anyway

[trd-st162]

In the book they gave with the sale of the motor it says that "EVERYTHING IS CHECKED" and any broken or faulty parts are to be replaced,

Adjusting the timing COMPLETELY back is hardly what i'd call "replacing broken parts"

I'd just say yeah 1 cam gear would be out and they tried to compensate for it!
A harmonic balancer "SHOULD" have been changed if they did the rebuild!

[trd-st162]

I actually bought the car, thought it'd be interesting to check the timing and discovered this problem!