GZE Rod = GTE Rod??? (Pistons Different)

[oldcorollas]

does the pin height vary between the GZ and GT?
does the deck height differ?

[stradlater]

The pin height doesn't, and I don't think the deck height does either, though I didn't measure it.

The heads are the same.

[6BOOST]

I will say again as I did in the other thread, all rods are the same length, all pistons are the same diam, all pistons have the same pin height, you can interchange any piston from na to turbo with no difference in compression height. You can also interchange early turbo rods/crank and supercharged rods/crank.

There are 2 journal diam. The fully counterweighted turbo crank has a 44mm journal on the crank. The ZE engine has a 42mm journal on the crank. There is NO 45mm journal. If you are measuring the rods, then same for the big end with bearing fitted, and if you take teh bearings out, you will have a 44mm big end or 46mm big end bore in teh rod itself.

Get some measurements, or exact more accurate measurements, and either pm me or post them up and we'll work it out. MAybe the turbo engines you have are early ones and you could have just used those rods and got a counterweighted crank, either way, I'd love a few spare sets of ZE rods, so you won't be left with bits you don't need

Kyle.

[stradlater]

Does the crank in the pic look like the counterweighted one?

[6BOOST]

No, those 2 cranks are def early non counterweighted cranks. Thats prob a good thing, not a bad thing, finding a crank seems to be the easy part, getting the smaller rods seems to be harder. But.... at this stage it looks like you may even have 3 sets of them

[love ke70]

why is the smaller crank a good thing? apart from being able to fit better bearings due to the 42mm big ends. i would have thought the fully counterweighted crank would be better?

[stradlater]

No no..

What Kyle is saying is the counterweighted crank is better. However the journals for the counterweighted crank are larger. So what you need then, is to machine the journals on the counterweighted crank down a touch, so the smaller rods will connect to the counterweighted crank.

Or atleast that was my understanding.

[love ke70]

thats what i thought would be best too....

[1jzracing]

so whats this capacity increase??

using an offset crank-grind and the smaller b/e rods etc

seems like a lot of dicking around

and remember if you spin 1mm off the pistons the valve clearence will be affected and the compression will get a double increase with smaller dish and bigger capacity

[6BOOST]

Man, so many questions.....

Yes, a lo of dicking around, the thing is, this WHOLE process started, not to stroke the engine, but because the turbo rod with the 44mm big and has a bearing that is not the same as any other engine on earth, at least that I've found. Not a single performance bearing manufacturer makes off the shelf bearings for this thing either, so you have 2 options.

1, use bearings from other engines, the mains in all engines are the same as 3SGTE, you will need 2 sets though.

2 The rods in the turbo engine can only use standard toyota(half shit but expensive) or cheap aftermarket ones I can get that are imported from japan(really shit but cheap)

3 THE MAIN REASON is that the GZE engines have the same rod bearings as a toyota 4K, and King BEarings make an off the shelf bearing for it. I very much like king bearings, they are a high end unit and more forgiving then a trimetal bearing also. These are cheap, easy to source, available up to .060 oversize, and go straight in.

Lastly, there is nothing wrong with building an engine with the early non counterweighted crank, but I wouldn't be trying to do what I have with the engine if you do. 1GG's have harmonic problems, so much so that one of my customers actually was welding on balancers in his circuit car to stop them coming off. If you have ever sat the turbo crank side by side, you will see what I'm talking about and know why you would use one. The ZE crank and early crank looks like any old crappy crank, nothing overly special, howevere the fully counterweighted crank looks like a very trick bit of gear, smooth, radiused counterweights, and on every journal for better balance.

I have already machined a turbo crank to take a ZE rod, that is what is in my old engine that I sold to Jordan, it was also balanced, there are ZERO balance issues. When you offset grind the crank, its purely for the sake of it. It take very little work to skim 1mm off the piston, and its plenty big enough, and unless your running some big camshafts, piston to valve clearance is not an issue, they have 7mm at the closest point with my 9mm lift cams. I would however highly recommend that you check it, just like any other custom built engine.

Hope this clears up some of the reason why A, is the reason its done at all, and B, that the stroking issue is purely becuase you can, the crank has to be ground anyway, why not do it??

6BOOST

EDIT: Just to clarify, my old engine is stock strock, but has these combination of parts. I am offset grinding my new crank though with a 77mm piston to take capacity out past 2130cc.

[6BOOST]

Also, attached is the picture you posted, but I Have drawn yellow arrorws to indicate the counterweights, and on the left, red on the 2 journals that have no counterweights. The last model turbo crank has these counterweights between every single journal, not one is missing one, and rather than the square blunt endges like this ones has, they are all smooth and rounded on the leading and trailing edges.

6BOOST

[twentyEight]

There is counterweights on the 2 journals where you have those red arrows pointing...

They are out of shot of camera, down to the lower left...

[Hydra]

6BOOST, that information is pretty interesting. I think I will be finding out very soon if I can do this. From memory, when my engine was rebuilt they used a GZE bottom end. Not 100% sure how true this is to be honest, but thats the information i've been given. Recently got a 1G-GTE crank from Clint - part of me hopes it's a straight drop in fit (after some cleaning up!) but the other part of me also wants to entertain the idea of increased capacity for little

[stradlater]

I actually don't think there is counterweights where he's put the arrows. It's just the journal ends, not actually counterweights.

[6BOOST]

There is definately no counterweights on the crankshaft on those 2 journals. I don't know why people seem to ask and question me over and over about the same things. I've pulled apart at least 20 1G's, I've had 6 engines in my car, and every single time I've measured, checked, and remeasured these things to figure it all out, simply because there is nothing avalailable for them. They have harmoic problems, there is prob no need for most street cars to bother changing to the counterweighted crank, but coincidentally, most people here seem to be getting the early engines, where at one stage I had 4 counterweighted cranks and not 1 single set of the smaller rods.

None of the parts are rare, its a simple process that has been blurred and made look more complicated than it really is becuase of the constant questions over and over again in 3-4 separate threads, with every expert giving their opinion on what they think will happen and how it should work when they have never done it. I like helping people out, I don't do it for income bla bla bla, I just know how hard it is to figure shit out for yourself, and if you can save people $$, time, and get thema better end product/engine then I personally think that is what street machining is about, getting along, helping each other achieve our goals as cheaply as possible and sharing the infomation.

Anyway, thats my rant, I guess I'm tired of answering the same questions over and over. Follow my advise, and you won't go wrong, if its easier or you can't get a reply from me, call me, 0410 730 598, I'm happy to help, even get your engine builder or whatever to call me, but if your building one of these engines and following my advise, please use the search key, I've posted all the info and all the pics here before

Hope to see some more tuff 1G's roaming the streets soon.

6BOOST