5-ME crankshaft pulley bolt

[GasedT18]

Hi Folks,

novice OK; fixing my old mum's old car MX-62 5-ME (Automatic) - blew head gasket just before xmas – great timing - not.

How do you lock the crankshaft to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off?

The head is off btw and the repair is with the engine in the car. Haynes manual no help.

It occurred to me that I could bolt down a piece of plate across a bore with some soft packing disks on top of two of the pistons BTDC but I'm kinda worried about the force needed to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off stuffing up the rods/pistons? I'm shopping tomorrow for a breaker bar and high tensile socket. A rattle gun would be handy but wouldn't fit behind the radiator.

On my T-18 you can lock the flywheel but this Cressida's got me stumped.

The saga:
This started out as what I hoped was 'just' a head gasket job. 2 years ago a mob charged her $1800 for a reco head refit after mum cooked it - it's blown again. There's a small amount of corrosion pitting on the head near the gasket seal at the back of No 6 but no obvious tracks. Also the exhaust gasket was leaking on No 6. A lot of the nuts and bolts felt they hadn't been torqued properly. I could see coolant bubbling out of the exhaust gasket on No 6.

I noticed the cam chain tensioner sprocket had lost it's 'teeth' apparently in the last 2 years - don't last long do they? Transpires these teeth are plasticy/rubbery stuff. To get the sprocket off you have to get the timing chain cover off. This requires removal of the air con pump which in turn requires removal of the battery to get to the charcoal canister and then the spark coil. Then the sump and oil pump have to come off too. F&%*$#g hell this has to be the longest dismantling sequence in history.

I also noticed there wasn't a block shim. I wonder if too much meat was taken off the head and raised the compression too much? So I'm opting for a shim (the thickest I could get) just in case.

Advice and thoughts appreciated.

David

[Cuzzo]

You can get this tool for the crank pulley bolt, its a long shaft with a swivelling adapter on the end, then off that, there is the adapter for the socket. I had a look on google but i dont know what it is called.

So you put it over the crank pulley bolt and push down the rod untill the socket adapter is resting on the shaft. Then you hit it with a lump hammer and it "cracks" the bolt. then you can just use a normal socket/rachet.

Anyone know what it is called?

[GasedT18]

Thanks Cuzzo,

I know the tool and maybe a metre of 1" water pipe for leverage.

The main problem is stopping the crank from turning.

With the head on and chain over cam sprocket you can lock it by putting a bar through one of the holes on the cam sprocket. The chain then takes the load (and presumably won't stretch). If I knew I was going to have to take the timing chain cover off I would have lossened the pulley bolt in the first place. But I'd rather not have to put the head back on even temporarily - but may well have to. The other alternative is the plate & packing idea on one or two of the pistons - I'm just unsure that this is 'allowable'.

The annoying thing is that with maybe 5mm extra clearance inside the timing chain cover (or a small seperate cover in the area) you could get the tensioner sprocket off without taking the timing chain cover/air con pump/sump/oil pump off etc etc - aaaargh!

David

[2jzhilux]

easy trick
get a socket with a bar on the end long enough to touch the chassis rail remember the motor will turn clockwise so put the bar on the pulley bolt work out witch way it will turn and rest the bar on the chassis rail then just flick the starter motor it will make a bang but it cracks the pulley bolt and then you can just undo it with a rachet if you havent got the radiator out yet cut a piece of cardboard and put it against the fins so you dont damage them

[joecoolmk2]

easy trick
get a socket with a bar on the end long enough to touch the chassis rail remember the motor will turn clockwise so put the bar on the pulley bolt work out witch way it will turn and rest the bar on the chassis rail then just flick the starter motor it will make a bang but it cracks the pulley bolt and then you can just undo it with a rachet if you havent got the radiator out yet cut a piece of cardboard and put it against the fins so you dont damage them

yeah, btw, this won't work on honda's, cuz they are gay(they turn anti-clockwise )

[gianttomato]

Wouldn't bother with replacing the tensioner cog. Only the original 1965 M series motors had a metal one - and you're just never going to find one of those. The rubbery ones all strip within a year. WOFTAM if you ask me - if you pull off the timing cover, you will have to replace the timing cover gaskets (only from Toyota jobbie - good luck over the holiday season) and the sump gasket too if you aren't really really careful (and lucky). Just do the tensioner up a bit more and be done with.

Definitely wouldn't bother with a shim - it just adds another sufarce that can fail. As for the compression increase, it would be negligible for a typical skim (5 or so thou). Remember, the old 5ME has a comp ratio of around 8.5:1 - I have a head here with about 60 thou removed - no issues.

[GasedT18]

Very interesting Ecotechilux, thanks. Have you done this routinely without problems? Is the idea to get some torque out of the fly wheel and hope the bar comes in contact with the chassis after and definetly not before the starter has disengaged?

BTW The Haynes manual italics 'not to turn the crank (or cam)' once the head is off. I've never had to re-time/index a 6 cyl before but I guess provided I've marked the timing pulley notch against the timing marks on the timing cover and recorded the location of cyls 2-5 I should be able to get it back in place within a couple of degrees?

Also - now a bit more off topic - can the rocker assembly be tightened down without backing off the tappets? Would be convenient. Again Haynes manual not clear here.

Gianttomato, thanks. I did consider turning a blind eye to the tensioner cog but then got a bit enthusiastic/purist. It's hard to know when to stop, what to leave alone etc.

A local mechanic suggests I look harder for a flywheel inspection/locking port or take the starter off and lock the crank there and failing this put the head/timing chain back on. He said no to the piston idea. He also said expect the crank bolt to need anywhere between 80-120 Nm torque to get it off!!!

Sounds like standard 19mm 1/2" socket & flexibar could fail and a 3/4 sliding T bar is the go.

[gianttomato]

Well, if you're so keen to replace this cog, then undo the torque converter cover plate at the front bottom of the bellhousing. Bolt one end of a chain to one of the torque converter bolts and then bolt one of the links to some fixed point on the block/bellhousing. Once the small amount of slack is taken up, the crank won't move at all. Then just move the crank back to the indexed position (cyl 1 TDC) before removing the pulley - make sure you put some tension on the timing chain otherwise it can gather and bind. If you are lucky the pulley can come off just by being levered off using a big screwdriver working alternately from above and below - otherwise you might need a gear puller to finish the job. If you do use one of these, make sure you put the pulley bolt in the hole and work off that otherwise you will munt the thread.

As for actually undoing the bolt, if you don't have a breaker bar, just use your shittiest ratchet and good length (2-3 feet) of thick walled water pipe.

[2jzhilux]

if you have the head off though DONT do this your timing chain will bunch up at the bottom of your timing cover
i do this on a regular basis and the worst that happens is the bar can hit the radiator
OH CRAP i just read your first post you have the head off
DONT DO IT

[GasedT18]

It's OK ecotechilux, chill, I figured you meant with the head/timing chain on.

It's not that I'm so keen gianttomato, just that I got the cog before realising how much had to be dismantled - my mistake - and then there were all the little un-documented surprises. I wonder if any automotive engineers have ever approached design with serviceability in mind? A little more clearance in the timing chain cover would have meant the cog could come out easily and Toyota could have sold millions more cogs and made them a routine replacement (as you say they fail within a year) and we wouldn't have to put up with noisy engines.

Looking at it I'm now wondering if the sump will come off with engine in car and if it will clear the oil pump pick-up? Yes partial removal will allow the timing chain cover to come off but I'd like to be able to fix the oil leak from the sump gasket while I'm at it.

Thanks for the advice, I should have got onto this forum before I started - better pay my dues.

Cheers

David

[Adash=P]

Rattle gun is good When I had to remove the main pulley bolt off the 22RE, I didn't have access to pneumatic tools so I used a socket, breaker bar and hammer. In this case the head was still on. It took a few big hits but it finally came undone.

GL!

[gianttomato]

if you have the head off though DONT do this your timing chain will bunch up at the bottom of your timing cover

make sure you put some tension on the timing chain otherwise it can gather and bind

Done it plenty of times. Just make sure you pull the timing chain up firmly as you slowly rotate the crank back and forth. Also when you bolt the chain up to your flex plate, make sure the chain has very little slack in it so that the crank barely rotates till the chain is taut.
You could also try this method (or a variant thereof):

I wonder if any automotive engineers have ever approached design with serviceability in mind? A little more clearance in the timing chain cover would have meant the cog could come out easily.....

I always figured they did it deliberately - if for example the tensioner failed catastrophically, then the tensioner cog couldn't completely come off its spindle and there would still be some residual slack taken up by the sprocket.

[JesseCrown]

Thanks Cuzzo,

I know the tool and maybe a metre of 1" water pipe for leverage.

The main problem is stopping the crank from turning.

With the head on and chain over cam sprocket you can lock it by putting a bar through one of the holes on the cam sprocket. The chain then takes the load (and presumably won't stretch). If I knew I was going to have to take the timing chain cover off I would have lossened the pulley bolt in the first place. But I'd rather not have to put the head back on even temporarily - but may well have to. The other alternative is the plate & packing idea on one or two of the pistons - I'm just unsure that this is 'allowable'.

The annoying thing is that with maybe 5mm extra clearance inside the timing chain cover (or a small seperate cover in the area) you could get the tensioner sprocket off without taking the timing chain cover/air con pump/sump/oil pump off etc etc - aaaargh!

David

If his talking about the tool im thinking of, we have one at work, you dont need leverage and the crank wont turn, just the shock from the hammer cracks the bolt before the crank turns, they work well.
otherwise just pull radiator out and rattle it

[2jzhilux]

i think your talking about one of these
yes they work great too
http://www.collinsid.com.au/Automoti...teOpenOrderID=

[JesseCrown]

yep thats the one