Need help getting MSD working - help me Witzl

[jezza323]

ok, so i have an MSD 6a copy (Procomp CDI) which i am trying to get working on my 4e-fe. my 4efe has a dizzy with an internal ignitor and internal coil

this is how the coil is connected up in OEM format


and i have bolted the CDI in, and connected the thick red and thick black wires to batt+ and earth, then opened up the dizzy and messed with the dizzy wires until they look like this


i have put a 4 point plug in the wiring to the CDI so i am able to get it running by jumpering the cut wires back together, the car runs fine like this. what happens is if i switch the key from off -> start the engine will fire once, but not start, then crank over without firing. but if i switch the key back to on, then to start, it doesnt fire. however if i switch the key to off again, then to start it will fire once then cranks without starting again.

i have connected a timing light upto cyl 1 plug lead and the timing light is firing while the engine is cranking and not starting so my guess is somehow what i have done is messing with something other than spark (although i havent tested the plug for spark yet, the timing light tells me it should be sparking) EDIT: plug is firing huge big sparks

i have been told i need the MSD tach adapter, but i dont see what it needs to adapt, as the dizzy/ignitor are working normally, it is only the coil which has been effected...

anyone who knows about these things able to tell me why it doesnt work? help would be much appreciated!

thanks!

PS. check out my mad paint skillz y0!

[jezza323]

ok been searching around and most ppl seem to think i will need a tacho adapter, now my question is, what is the output of the ignitor to the coil? is it a square wave?

[sideshow]

u might be gettin interference

i fucked around with an emstress on a 4efe and with that inbuilt coil ignitor setup
all i was gettin was interference in the magnetic pickup sensor that sends the signals to ecu

maybe the bigger spark from the msd is doin similar thing to std ecu

try putting the timing light on leads 2 and 3 and 4 see if yu get ok results

[jezza323]

lead 2 is definately fine....

im pretty sure the spark is fine, but it could definately be interference with the mag pickups

might watch the tacho when im turning it over next time, see what it reads, it should be what the ecu is reading...

[jezza323]

ok ive talked to MSD tech support online

they tell me i need the tach adapter to generate a return signal to the ignitor? sounds strange to me....

[sideshow]

not sure at the end of the day i doubt u will get more power if the engine is std and runnin an msd

but i guess people read too much magazines hehehehe

[jezza323]

i dont want any power increase, just a lil increase down low (under 2000) would be fine

i like to do things before they become a problem rather than after

[jezza323]

reading Witzl's info here

according to MSD techs the reason it wont start is that the IGf signal is no longer generated as the ignitor does not actually fire a coil. do any of you super smart electronics gurus know how i can emulate the IGf signal? i cant get it off the coil because the coil will be firing many times for each ignition event...

[mrshin]

Do you seriously think you'll gain something by fitting MSD to a 4EFE?

[jezza323]

no

i think i will gain something once i bolt the turbo on down the track though

[MWP]

[edit - thats what i get for not looking over the question/sch properly]

this is fucking 10 chars. damn forum.

[MWP]

Have you got a coil balast resistor handy??

Try connecting that between the output of the factory ignitor (white wire msd) and ground.
It may be the MSD isnt creating enough load for the factory ignitor to fire correctly... the ballast resitor should be about the same resistance as a normal coil, so the ignitor will think its firing one again.

[jezza323]

a ballast resistor as in the thing on old cars with 9v coils? will see wot i can find

[jezza323]

for anyone who is interested i ended up getting the MSD tacho adapter for Toyotas. It restores the IGf signal from the igniter by making the ignitor think its firing a coil, even though its not. It would seem the IGf is much bigger too, as my aftermarket tacho started reading double, the diode which came with the tacho soon fixed that though.

and it has made quite a large difference, especially in low revs/high load situations, the car used to splutter a little, now it just drives through it also revs out a lil bit better. may be that the dizzy cap and rotor are not in the best condition which was causing it to be this way, but its all good now. i am putting a new cap and rotor on tonight, so we will see if that makes more difference again.