surge tank

[benen]

hey all,
I have read a lot about surge tank setups recently and it appears that there are about a million different ways to set it all up! So im a little confused and have a few questions. Ok i already have a tank but am trying to figure out what pumps to get first of all.

So i need a low pressure pump and a high pressure pump, i'm not really that concerned about noise so i was thinking either bosch or holley? i dont want to spend stupid amounts of money, i just want it to work. Can anyone recommend particular models for the pumps that i will need? I am running two T28's instead of the standard turbos so i will need more fuel than a standard 1g. Oh and its in an RA28

Also, fuel lines.Obviously replacing the hoses but will the standard fuel lines suffice with this motor and turbos or should i replace them. if so what diameter?

Last thing. Everyone says they have thought about different options for placement of pumps and the tank. Can anyone tell me of setups that they have tested and have worked well?

Thanks
Benen

[kingmick]

yep cater lift pump and a walbro high pressure{or fork out double for a bosche motorsport} pump! easy
tested ? mine all work perfect but ask away if you have a question.
going by the power you will get out of the 28 and not knowing what the car and engine is makes it hard to say about lines but in genral they will be fine.

[benen]

ah cheers for the quick reply! I did say, the car is an RA28 and the motor is a 3rd gen 1G-GTE with two T28 turbos. From a RB26DETT or something. Whatever is in the gtr skylines. Who cares what car theyre from lol.

[kingmick]

sorry i cant see for looking sometimes as i read the first bit most times
depending on what power you want to srew out of it later will be the high pressure pump you pick. walbro a fine but big HP go the bosche

[benen]

haha thats cool. I'm hoping to get around 200rwkw eventually, maybe a bit less. nothing too crazy. I see a few pumps on the walbro site. Can u recommend any in particular?

thanks again

[30psi 4agte]

you can also use a high pressure pump as the lift pump for the surge tank as long as its plumbed up ok . I.e the surge tank has a return at the top of it and the excess fuel is returned to the top of the fuel tank.

[benen]

thanks
I am buying 2 new pumps so i just want someone to give me a couple of model numbers! lol

[benen]

anyone? if not model numbers. what kind of specs should i be looking for in the 2 pumps?

[YLD-16L]

what kind of specs should i be looking for in the 2 pumps?

Estimate the amount of fuel the injectors will flow at 100% duty cycle and get a HP pump that is capable of flowing more than that (play it safe and ensure it can flow a fair bit more so you won't need to upgrade it down the path should you choose to upgrade injectors and chase more power).

The surge tank will give you some headway with the low pressure pump but still make sure it is up to the task of supplying enough fuel to supply the HP pump at sustained high RPM.

[MWP]

you can also use a high pressure pump as the lift pump for the surge tank as long as its plumbed up ok . I.e the surge tank has a return at the top of it and the excess fuel is returned to the top of the fuel tank.

Not a good idea.
First, high pressure pumps are not normally good for this task as they dont have the "sucking" power of low pressure pumps.
They also cant run dry for very long as they burn out... hence the part of thr reason for having a surge tank before the high pressure pump to the fuel rail in the first place.
Another reason is they run hot and use the fuel for cooling, this heats the fuel on the way to the surge tank... not a big problem, but could hurt performance a little.

Good to see you on the forums Benen... i gather the CCC is still going ok?
Ive almost finished my 1yr stint overseas, will be back on the cruises in the next month or so

[benen]

hey mark,
gr8 2 hear from u! Yeah its still going as far as i know. I havent been out since u left. Just work on my car when i get some time here and there. Getting close to sorting it out though i think! Cant wait to get out on some cruises again. B great 2 c u back again!

Cheers
Benen

[MWP]

It would be good to see your yellow beast back on the roads again.
If i remember correctly you started work on getting the 1GGTE in the RA28 just before i left.

Another note, if you want to make sure itll get through engineering/rego, put all the fuel stuff (both pumps, surge tank, filter) into a sealed metal case that has a vent in the bottom to outside the car.
Similar to what Greg did in the boot of his TA22 if you remeber that setup.
Its actually a good idea to do this anyway as even a setup that doesnt leak any fuel at all will still leak fuel odours into the cabin.

[c2888]

The engineer we spoke to on monday said we were NOT allowed to have fuel in the boot, not even if everything is sealed and vented.
He wanted a dry cell battery too.
But since every eng goes by different interpretations, it's really up to them.
Find one that will sign you off before you go crazy with a big fuel system.

Dan

[30psi 4agte]

Not a good idea.
First, high pressure pumps are not normally good for this task as they dont have the "sucking" power of low pressure pumps.
They also cant run dry for very long as they burn out... hence the part of thr reason for having a surge tank before the high pressure pump to the fuel rail in the first place.
Another reason is they run hot and use the fuel for cooling, this heats the fuel on the way to the surge tank... not a big problem, but could hurt performance a little.

Good to see you on the forums Benen... i gather the CCC is still going ok?
Ive almost finished my 1yr stint overseas, will be back on the cruises in the next month or so

ha ha ha ha ahhhhh its cool m8 i know what im doing i have been using this setup for about 7 years.

You are right about them not being able to draw fuel though almost all EFI pumps are like this-- i use in mine in a gravity style feed.
and yes they will burn out quick smart if run dry

The bouns is that the surge tank is always full to the top and fuel is always ready to go !

A few years ago i was on one of the few long trips i have done in this car and had my main EFI pump fail. I was stranded in the middle of nowhere with only a tool kit. Not wanting to leave my car i managed to re-route the fuel lines so that my surge pump was now my main pump !

Got me out of trouble BONUS!

I have found this a good setup to have on a high hp engine that drinks alot of fuel VERY quickly

[STR8 2.8]

The engineer we spoke to on monday said we were NOT allowed to have fuel in the boot, not even if everything is sealed and vented.
He wanted a dry cell battery too.
But since every eng goes by different interpretations, it's really up to them.
Find one that will sign you off before you go crazy with a big fuel system.

Dan

man engineering is so varied.
my engineer isnt bothered by the surgetank and lines in teh boot, it doesnt even have a shield to protect the lines or anything haha.