The ambitious goal - Early bigport 4agze into AE95 sr5

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Hi guys this is my first conversion, have done a lot of research over the last 18months & recently bought a JDM bigport 4AGZE from an AE92 Levin.
It's got 85k on the clock & has been sat in a garage for ten years. The oils all dried up & I've begun dismantling the engine for a thorough cleaning & some polishing & porting.

I currently drive a base model AE95 4wd wagon on weekends only, however I'm actually looking for an sr5 model or at least one that has a sun/moon roof.
So please keep an eye out & give me a shout if you know of one somewhere in Australia One's with sunroofs are getting harder to find.

OK... having never rebuilt an engine before here's the ambitious goal based on my research so far...

I just explained this in another forum & thought it could be a good way to begin my build thread.
Some guys asked me why I'd want to fit an old bigport plenum onto a 4agze



I know 4agze's come standard with top mount intercooler & weird little box shaped air chamber that the stumpy runners branch off unevenly from....
Why would I want to fit a (non butterflied)TVIS plenum & runners to a bigport 4agze????? (I'm actually not the first to do this)

Well, I'll break it down... the basic concept is this:



First & foremost.. "The purpose of the vehicle"
I'm an outdoors person (camping fishing surfing snowboarding) but I'm not into big beast road cars or 4wd's (I'd rather blow the big beasts away )

The AE95 4WD WAGON is already a versatile vehicle, basically capable of 2 seperate purposes.

1) Good road ability but really needs more power
2) Good dirt & snow ability but needs better/higher suspension


So... Let's deal with the road aspect first.
The most obvious mod all 4agze owners are aware of is to upgrade the pulley system, this in turn creates higher temps, creating the need for a bigger intercooler. The biggest intercoolers are front mounted, which also allows for the use of a cooling fan.
But... being further away from the super charger & intake means some power is lost because the air has to travel further before reaching the engine.
One way to regain or even increase more horsepower, is to do everything possible to eliminate turbulence within the intake, head & exhaust system by giving consideration to pipe size, shape & cornering angles &... porting where ever possible.

In the context of eliminating turbulence, the flow shapes of the stock 4agze intake runners are probably the worst shape of all 4A** engines due to sharp angled corners, dramatic changes in pipe shape & uneven length runners - meaning some piston chambers are getting less air than others.
So that's probably the main reason I'm keen to use the good air chamber & long, torque inducing runners of a big port (non-butterflied)TVIS plenum.
I'm keen to see what horsepower gains will results. ??
So in a nutshell, this is all to create a higher volume of cooler faster flowing air to the engine. The higher the oxygen content, the bigger the bang, the more power you have.

So that's all my considerations around the road aspects of the vehicle...
but..

What about the dirt & snow ability?
Well.., aside from raising the suspension, (more detail on suspension later in the thread)
I want to install a switch for the supercharger so I can completely disengage it at will, leaving the engine to run naturally aspirated,as the air will just flow straight past the idle supercharger lobes but still be cooled by the intercooler & fan.
Combine all these aspects:
The higher suspension, the all wheel drive, (some broad all terrain tyres) the unusually low 1st gear ratio of the AE95, plus the big ports lack of low down torque ( when it's running naturally aspirated) &... you'll end up being able to creep up steep winding muddy tracks without overheating the engine because the super charger is not in use but the air's still running through a fan fed intercooler.

All feedback / input welcome guys, if anyone thinks I'm on track or got it wrong or perhaps theres some more options you might like to offer..

I've recently read the throttle body on the 4agze is before the super charger ummm... so I'm not a hundred percent sure yet.., how I'm gonna do all my plumbing etc, so any input is welcome.

happy to discuss



http://www.alltracwagon.net/forum/m-1290158629/

[oldeskewltoy]

Well.... I'm not sure about in all places... but in the states, only the 4AF that came in the AE95 has the block clearence to fit the E55/E57 transaxle used in the AE95. A 20V block can be machined to fit, but I'm pretty sure all 4AGZE blocks will not fit the AE95 transaxle

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Yeah, your right, it takes a small amount of grinding on the lower part of the block & oil pan on the intake side just back from the flywheel..

A few guys in Toymods have already done it (TrboWgn, Kebin & Instigator)

[URL="http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=28002&highlight=ae95+4agze"[/URL]

[oldeskewltoy]

I have an AE95 too - http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20141

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Aaah Nice one, These babies are rare indeed, You've got yourself a beauty there!
...Is it in another forum??? I remember asking you questions about the winter tyres in the picture, ...about a year ago.

Have you done anything with it since you've owned it??

I actually know where one of these is.. I wanna buy it but the guys not sure if he wants to sell it.. it's also a 4AF auto, so if he does ever sell it to me I'm gonna convert the transmission to manual & put my old 4afe into it with a small turbo set up. Let my mum drive it -

Would love to own both & set up the sedan for street & wagon as mentioned in original post.

Are you familiar with this forum?

[URL="[URL="http://alltracwagon.net/"[/URL]"]

IMO the AE95's deserve more credit than they get.

[MWP]

Wont the 4AGZE be older than the AE95 car?
If it is, it wont be a legal conversion.

Just something for you to think about if the car being properly legal is important.

[TERRA Operative]

I wouldn't bother with the switch on the supercharger. A 4AGZE has less power off boost than an equivalent 4AGE. The ECU does a pretty good job of working out when the supercharger should be used.
Have you considered a water to air intercooler to mininise intake length?

Also, if you want an AE101 scoop to weld into your bonnet, I have a spare.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Hmmmmnnn... Now there's an interesting point.

Not sure where you got that from but I looked up the Vic government rules & all I found was the engine had to be same capacity..

Can you provide a PDF or weblink with more accurate info?

My car is 21yrs old, built in 1989 - not sure how old the 4agze engine is... it is an early model jdm spec out of a AE92 Levin

As far as I know they were built from May 1987 to May 1989, so it's quite possible it's a little bit older than my car & would more than likely be older than an AE95 with a sunroof, (which is what I'm looking for) coz I don't think they bought sunroof models out till later around 1990.. just guessing

[PrettyCoolWagon]

I wouldn't bother with the switch on the supercharger. A 4AGZE has less power off boost than an equivalent 4AGE. The ECU does a pretty good job of working out when the supercharger should be used.
Have you considered a water to air intercooler to mininise intake length?

Also, if you want an AE101 scoop to weld into your bonnet, I have a spare.

G'day.. I'm sure the ECU does do a pretty good job of knowing when to kick in, however having a switch is strictly for the muddy bush tracks where wheels can slip & revs can go up & sc can kick in - I like having options / broader range of control - It's not an option that's gonna hurt anything.

Yes I am currently reading up on water to air IC's I don't know much about the pros & cons of a FMIC vs. an W2A & how they'd stack up against each other for my over all applications..

More info appreciated

I just google imaged AE101 scoop - size & shape actually looks pretty good Terra Op'

My current plan is to go FMIC & fabricate a shield between the head & plenum above the runners (to keep the plenum cool from radiant heat) ..& curve the shield up to meet a reverse mounted scoop that allows the engine bay to vent onto the windscreen..
(good for de-misting in winter)

[TERRA Operative]

don't mount the reverse scoop too far back, as the windscreen is a high pressure zone and you'll end up with air going in, which will stop air from flowing through your radiator properly and actually aid in overheating.
You want to mount the exhaust vent as far forward as possible, if it is an intake scoop, you want it as far back as possible.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Sorry perhaps I should've said vent 'towards' the windscreen.

Like I said, it'll be above the intake runners & probably partially above the intake cam cover or there abouts - so.. it should be fine.

[TERRA Operative]

that's what I mean. At over about 40kph, the pressure differential from the air hitting the windscreen will force the air into the scoop.
I've done my own testing to work out what does and doesn't work for competiton 4WD applications.
It works great for venting heat at low speed, but needs to be blocked off for normal use, unless you put the vent as far forward as possible (ie, over the extractors like on drift cars)

[PrettyCoolWagon]

ok, interesting .. now.. the size & shape of scoop or vent will come into play as well...

I'll be raising my suspension, modding the front bumper & doing away with the plastic splash guards that sit just behind the bumper so there'll be more air flowing into the engine bay.

What sort of 4wd's are you talking about & what sort of scoop were you using?? pics..?

Originally I was set on reverse mounting a wrx style scoop - very broad across the bonnet but hardly any length to it at all... but from what you're saying, you believe a longer scoop that reaches further over the engine works better?

One that covers a larger area? (Reminds me of the old toranas!)

I'm curious how high up did your reverse scoop protrude above the bonnet?

Because the higher it is, the more chance you have of creating a turbulent return in the same way that water in a river swirls behind a rock as it flows past.
This is the same principle that can pin kayakers at the bottom of waterfalls, continually tumbling around in circles & it's also the basic physics used in slipstreaming. I used to race push bikes & slip stream behind buses & light trucks when I was out on the road training & there's actually a point where you can feel the air flow backwards.

It's an interesting point you make & worth considering a bit more - if I'm to make the concept work effectively...

How did you do your testing & what were the vehicles & conditions you tested under?

I keep on thinking of the water sprays from the bonnet to the windscreen.

If I take on board what you believe, wouldn't I have seen some turbulence from the air pressure you're talking about when I spray water to clean my wind screen??

From my example, I've noticed the water sprays higher up the windscreen & even over the roof, the faster the car is moving...??

I'm wondering if you factored in the curve of the bonnet being greater towards the front, meaning when the air flows over it in that position. It has less of a drop to return back to the surface of the bonnet. So there's a lesser degree of backflowing turbulence.

Whereas placing a reverse mount scoop further up the bonnet, where the bonnet surface is flatter would make more of a bump in the air flow creating a larger pocket of backflowing turbulence.
I can see how this could be a problem.. if there wasn't enough positive air pressure flowing through the engine bay & out the vent..

Not a hundred percent convinced it's the windscreen pressure alone ..
Like I said.. How did you do your testing?

[TERRA Operative]

I was (and am) playing with jeeps, I was using differential pressure sensors, temp sensors etc on various profiles. I'm posting from my phone so I can't easily post pics but if you google for wind tunnel testing and pressure analysis, you'll see what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about pressure differentials, not turbulence. You'll find some interesting reading on the subject. Autospeed has some good articles.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Ok - turbulence is also worth considering.. & the windscreen of all jeeps are much closer to meeting oncoming wind at a perpendicular angle than the windscreen of an AE95 so your jeeps would create more pressure than my wagon would.

None the less I have found some people who agree with you.

http://www.performanceforums.com/for...-67154128.html

Anyway.. back to the original concept: Shielding the plenum from radiant heat & cooling it in anyway possible.. which could be done even with back flowing air...
Your concern is that I'll actually reduce flow through the radiator & heat up the engine. I'd think with raised suspension, higher rate of flow beneath car would help draw all that muddled engine air out.

All this may be a bit over the top but it's fun to consider..
I do see your point though, that's why there's some crazy bonnets out there with massive depression style vents right at the front to increase flow through the radiator.. - in that case I've always thought one would have to shield the exhaust headers from all that cold air..

Well you've done enough to make sure I test my concepts...

I'd also like to push this thing through some water, creeks etc..
So I doubt that I'll have one of those massive bonnet vents.
I've just got to find the happy medium for the all-round purposes of the vehicle.