1jz with microtech issues

[midnight_purple_GA70]

Ok so ill start by telling the story of the events as they unfolded...

I own a GA70 supra which the 1g-gte became a bad idea and went for the 1jz
few motors later i got one to work with a microtech etc etc...

drove round fine for about 8 months until the pivot ball in the bellhousing broke... dellows then informed me i must use their clutch fork and throwout bearing instead of genuine toyota items (dellows bellhousing jz-w58 as at the time i couldnt or didnt want to wait for a genuine one to show up)

while reinstalling the gearbox i cracked back of the block where the bellhousing bolts to so the motor was pulled to have that welded up and ive learnt my lesson about how not to reinstall a gearbox... (dont try to pull it on by tightening the bolts)

so at this point i decided the twins were not to go back on the car... and opted for an ebay spec t04z copy.

so eventually the car all went back together and it started and ran but upon looking into the tune the car would lean out coming onto boost...

due to this discovery and a voltage issue (volts dropping under load) i decided to rewire the microtech in a less ghetto way...

the car also was triggering the home/ref/rpm error on the microtech at about 4000rpm which lead me to believe the crank or cam sensor trigger was wired back to front...

also another issue reared its head around the same time where the car would start and idle for about 10 seconds then stall... i figured it was tune related as it was getting into winter and getting much colder and the cold start on the car had not really been looked at yet alot of fuel had been added to the tune to try stop it from leaning out under boost... also when it ran for the 10 seconds or so it would stall under any application of throttle

anyway months went by and i slowly rewired it all... went to restart the car and what do you know same start idle briefly stall situation... throttle would instantly stall the car...

ive checked cam crank and tps sensor wiring against a mates wiring (1jz-microtech) and they are now the same... car will start sometimes run rough then stall or sometimes run rough then run nicely then stall

im pretty well out of ideas now other than it being tune related... wondering if there is anything ive been overlooking...

cliffs
-car used to run
-car then had turbo upgrade
-car leaned out on boost
-car had voltage/wiring issues
-car would start idle for 10 seconds then stall
-rewired microtech on car
-still has same issues of starting but not continuing to idle
-idle is rough now as i believe the tune might be out due to previously having crank/cam sensors round the wrong way...

so anyone want to throw out any ideas...
im guessing a new set of plugs wouldnt go astray however would like to see if anyone has any better ideas...

specs of the car...
ga70 supra
1jz-gte conversion
w58
ebay spec t04z copy
ebay spec manifold cleaned and braced
tial 44mm wastegate
us spec oem 2jz-gte 550cc injectors
ebay spec front mount
microtech lt12s
walbro 255l fuel pump

cheers guys

[1JZ-Rolla]

Have you checked the base timing with a timing light (with the ECU in "TIMING LOCKED" mode)?

The car may be starting and then stalling because there is not enough fuel in the coolant temp correction map, but it manages to start still because there is sufficient fuel in the "Crank" primer setting, and After Start Enrichment screen (AfStE) which give it enough fuel to fire, but not keep running. Under these conditions, touching the throttle will make it worse, especially if the area of the map you are moving onto is leaner as well.

Sounds like the first thing you need to do it get a wideband O2 meter on it to see what is actually happening.

Do you have a Microtech handset or laptop to work with? I could give you some figures to input that might help it run at least.

CHeers
Phil

[midnight_purple_GA70]

currently have a handset (though its not mine and has tunes saved in it) but to my knowledge if i just use it to adjust settings it wont effect any tunes saved to the hand controller...

i havent checked base timing only due to the fact the car was running previously and now its not and i havent touched anything to change the timing...

will try get my tuner to come round with the O2 meter and see whats happening...
some figures though might not go astray... least that way i can see if its an improvement or not and then revert back to current values if it doesnt work...

[1JZ-Rolla]

currently have a handset (though its not mine and has tunes saved in it) but to my knowledge if i just use it to adjust settings it wont effect any tunes saved to the hand controller...

correct, anything you change on the handset only writes directly to the ECU, not affecting any saved tunes in the handset's memory, so go for it.

i havent checked base timing only due to the fact the car was running previously and now its not and i havent touched anything to change the timing...

you changed the polarity of the crank or cam sensor right? Everything related to this could potentially change the base timing...... its worth checking.

will try get my tuner to come round with the O2 meter and see whats happening...
some figures though might not go astray... least that way i can see if its an improvement or not and then revert back to current values if it doesnt work...

no probs mate, i'll post some values up here when I get home, that might assist with startup and post start running, plus some idle values that you will need to input also. We have the same sized injectors so provided your base fuel pressure isn't wildly different, it should give you the result you need, all other things being equal.

[midnight_purple_GA70]

base fuel pressure is whatever 1jz runs from factory with the stock reg... IIRC is about 40psi?

is it possible to accurately check the base timing if the car isnt really running?

[1JZ-Rolla]

accurately? Maybe not down to the last degree....... but we're just mainly interested in it being somewhere between ten and 20 degrees BTDC, enough to get it started, as opposed to something too far out of range like ATDC.

Depends how fast your engine cranks on the starter as to how good a reading you will get

[1JZ-Rolla]

Try these values:


Af_StE 25% (after start enrichment - starts at 25% and decays over a set time)


Crank (steps in Degrees Celsius, adjustment values as percentage)
5 +60%
11 +60
18 +50
24 +38
31 +25
38 +20
46 +20
60 +20
68 +20
82 +20
99 +20


Water (Coolant temp Degrees C, adjustment values as a percentage)
5 +60C
11 +50
18 +42
24 +32
31 +22
38 +20
46 +19
60 +17
68 +15
82 +07
99 +00


IDLE (Inches Vacuum [HG] adjustments in injector milliseconds [ms])
30" 0.38
25 0.52
20 0.67
15 0.76
10 1.10
05 1.76
00 2.05


Timing at IDLE: 19 degrees

PUMP1
Amt: 5%
Pulse: +08
Trig: +16
Stop: 05" HG


PUMP2
Start: 2500rpm
Amt: 7%
Time +06
Trig: +25
Stop: 00" HG


PUMP Cold: 80%



One last question for now, is your ECU tuned in "Normal" or "Matrix" mode?

Cheers
Phil

[midnight_purple_GA70]

cheers for the info... do i need the pump 2 bits considering im only running a single pump?

and im not 100% sure off the top of my head if its normal or matrix...

[1JZ-Rolla]

The pump settings relate to "throttle pump", i.e: Accelerator enrichment, nothing to do with physical fuel pumps "Pump1" is for sudden throttle openings below 2500rpm, "Pump2" is for throttle opening over 2500rpm

Check through the screens on your handset, one of them will say something like "Mode: Matrix" or "Mode: Normal". I might be able to help you out with some base tuning values in the main fuel map to try.

Cheers
Phil

[midnight_purple_GA70]

ok well im off to go check it now... should i throw the above settings in or wait to check which mode its in 1st?

[midnight_purple_GA70]

ok so ive just checked the ones i currently have in mine against the above values and found them to be very different...

first of all my maps are set for "normal"

next my mixture trim is set to -37%


Crank (steps in Degrees Celsius, adjustment values as percentage)
5 +70%
11 +65
18 +60
24 +57
31 +55
38 +50
46 +20
60 +15
68 +05
82 +0
99 +0


Water (Coolant temp Degrees C, adjustment values as a percentage)
5 +33C
11 +30
18 +27
24 +22
31 +16
38 +12
46 +09
60 +18---- these seem very out of place
68 +17---- these seem very out of place
82 +08
99 +01


IDLE (Inches Vacuum [HG] adjustments in injector milliseconds [ms])
30" 0.86
24 0.62
18 0.71
12 0.95
06 0.95
00 1.81



Timing at IDLE: 14 degrees

PUMP1
Amt: 14%
Pulse: +02
Trig: +14
Stop: 02" HG


PUMP2
Start: 2000rpm
Amt: 30%
Time +10
Trig: +16
Stop: 02" HG


PUMP Cold: 0%

[1JZ-Rolla]

try my settings mate, but reset that MIXTRIM to zero. Who tuned it? Was the -37% something to do with a rough adjustment for the bigger injectors? Seems like quite a few random values across those tables.

Matrix vs Normal mode will have no bearing on the figures i've given you so far.

What you can do now that you have determined the mode to be set as "Normal" is to input these values into the main fuel screens: [edit: see 2 posts down]

[midnight_purple_GA70]

fucking plus 1000000000000 rep mate... it started and idled... i changed mixture trim back to 00% and put all the other values in... and it worked

where can i deliver beer to?

[1JZ-Rolla]

Main fuel LOAD map

25" 0.52
20 0.71
15 1.10
10 1.43
05 1.86
00 2.29
2psi 3.00
4 3.71
6 4.29
8 4.76
10 5.48
14 5.95
16 6.43
18 6.81
20 7.19


BTW: Don't go flogging the guts out of it once you've put these values in, sure, they might be close, but at the end of the day, they suit my particular setup, there may be differences in your intake/exhaust that are enough to affect the tune. Depends also on what ignition advance values your previous tuner has set up.

Hope this helps.

Phil

[1JZ-Rolla]

fucking plus 1000000000000 rep mate... it started and idled... i changed mixture trim back to 00% and put all the other values in... and it worked

where can i deliver beer to?

HAPPY TIMES!!!

glad to hear it mate, and happy to help out. no beers required I've spent a lot of time tuning my setup in various stages of development, I don't mind sharing the results if its gets you on the road.

Cheers
Phil

[edit] does your microtech have a 30psi map sensor upgrade or something? The steps in your fuel maps seem further apart than mine (20psi internal map sensor), making it a bit harder to interpolate the fuel MS values into yours directly. Should still be able to work out something close though. Let me know how you go.