OST-034: Noir Crowning

[RAAAH23]

Your quite right. I'am a fuckwit. But as this is your only contribution to such threads, what does that actually make you? Jesus Christ? Now that we both know that I'am a fuckwit, what now? Thank you for your input. Its been invaluable.

You also stated:
I agree with you RAAAH23.
Don't see 101gze putting any information up to validate his comments or negativity.


Iam not being negative, Iam being critical. If you think that my commentary on this blokes posts is based on nothingness, so be it. It does not matter what I have, it only matters what the FACTS are...just ask the OP

Hey mate, you've added just as much as I have. Being critical of every single post from OST isn't adding anything to the discussion. I'd say you have a certain dislike for OP and want to critique as many things as possible to discredit him and the information he brings forth. Anyone can dish out criticism how about you dish out some opposing "FACTS" instead, hmm food for thought.

EDIT: Oh and it's good to see you realize that you're a fuckwit im sure there are many who would agree, kudos.

[trdee]

Ok that will do, no more personal attacks. Quit it or i start handing out holidays

That goes for everyone. Legit questioning is fine but insults/flame wars do not belong in the tech section

[masterofsinanju]

101gze

I'm reading this thread as a bit of a learning opportunity. So what exactly is oldskewltoy doing that is so wrong? I get the sense that you have something more of an axe to grind than just disagreeing with his methods.

So my questions to you are:

What should he be doing?
Do you have some of your work to post in another thread showing stuff you think is wrong here?

(happy to take this discussion out of oldskewltoys thread to keep it neat)

[RAAAH23]

Ok that will do, no more personal attacks. Quit it or i start handing out holidays

That goes for everyone. Legit questioning is fine but insults/flame wars do not belong in the tech section

Yes boss!!!

[101gze]

Hey mate, you've added just as much as I have. Being critical of every single post from OST isn't adding anything to the discussion. I'd say you have a certain dislike for OP and want to critique as many things as possible to discredit him and the information he brings forth. Anyone can dish out criticism how about you dish out some opposing "FACTS" instead, hmm food for thought.

EDIT: Oh and it's good to see you realize that you're a fuckwit im sure there are many who would agree, kudos.

Ouch, what are you going to do next? Kick my dog? If you have some more abuse for me, please PM me, you are not offering anything of value to this thread,just sit back, STFU and look at the pretty pictures.

critique:-Critique is a method of disciplined, systematic analysis of a written or oral discourse. Although critique is commonly understood as fault finding and negative judgment, it can also involve merit recognition, and in the philosophical tradition it also means a methodical practice of doubt.

masterofsinanju I have an axe to grind. And I have previously posted detailed points regarding it. Idiotic statements such as 14000RPM 4age's grind my axe and it should grind any toyota enthusiast, because it make us all look like clowns. As to what I have to show? Anything I have to show will not be to appease people on a forum, it would only be shown in relevance to the discussion.

I'm not the one that creates numerous posts all showing the same damn thing. Its not up to me to prove my point, the burden of proof is on the OP , he is the one making outlandish claims, I'll make it as digestible as possible:

"The op has for many years stated that the 16v is capable of more than the 20v. So, here is the OP with a 20v in his possession. He has the perfect opportunity to take this to a shop he spends a lot of time at and in his own words (The race shop who does some of my valve jobs... still does everything by hand.... and no one makes more 4A power then they do..........)
Now, one would think that this is the perfect time to get comparable 16/20V flow numbers from the same flow bench. This would allow comparisons across the board between each and one would of thought he would jump at the chance. It would have offered the community great reference to both heads, but nooo...he aint gonna spend the money.
If he flows this on his own bench, it has no relevance."


Now...again..on with the discussion.

thank you for your contribution....

No, thankyou...

my client sent me 4... of the 5 valves - all the intakes, and one exhaust - bust my balls all you want, I'm always at the "mercy" of my client. I have a silvertop head, so after comparing the exhaust valves and finding them to be the same valve head, and similar stem, I used a silvertop exhaust valve in the above chamber volume check. So... unless my client sends me the 2nd exhaust valve, I'll be using a silvertop valve on the exhaust for the test.

I see it the other way around, your clients are at your mercy. Your going to port and flow this head, you commented on weird valve angles and you are right...am I the only one that see's this? Is it just the pic? I dont think so.

How do you think your flow figures will be accurate with seats like this? Does the OP or anyone here think that this is satisfactory? If you do, you need to find another interest, your not suited to messing with engines.

As to the conversation on an independent flowbench... **IF** you persuade my client to spend hundreds of dollars more, I have no problem getting my work independently verified... Does anyone want to pay the extra for my client?

How about this for a revelation...YOU pay for the flowing. Yeah...hows that YOU. Your the one taking money for this work, your the one making unfounded statements "I've spoken with a few people concerning the oddly shaped seats, Although oddly shaped, the back cut will aid filling, and so it should remain.... and it shall" Your the one that spends thousand of $$$ at Loynings, not to mention time, so it should be real easy to ask their assistance with this head.
Flowing is not that expensive, especially if you think you have all the components needed? If Loynings charge "hundreds" maybe you should spend your money at another shop.
I would have thought Loynings would be only too eager to assist, if not for your benefit, but theirs.

Now, whats wrong with this picture?

[trdee]

101gze has been given a 1 week holiday for continuing to flame other users even after fair warning. I haven't had to do this in quite a long time, hopefully everyone else in this thread gets the message..... It's not something I enjoy

[oldeskewltoy]

the intake side.....


paper towel in exhaust port is acting as a "cork", remember these are used valves, in used seats, and stuffing the opposite port to the one being test allows for honest figures.




The numbers @ 28".......


Unported Intake -

• .050 - 58.15
• .100 - 110.87
• .150 - 146.30
• .200 - 168.30
• .250 - 180.08
• .300 - 186.65
• .350 - 191.22
• .400 - 194.10

Ported Intake -

• .050 - 60.02
• .100 - 114.30
• .150 - 149.20
• .200 - 177.33
• .250 - 185.47
• .300 - 192.33
• .350 - 197.78
• .400 - 202.35

There is a glaring error on one reading, can anyone find it??? I likely over adjusted one valve, What should it read (about/approximate)??


setting up to do the exhaust side




Unported Exhaust -

• .050 - 32.45
• .100 - 65.52
• .150 - 90.95
• .200 - 110.12
• .250 - 122.80
• .300 - 130.25
• .350 - 135.48
• .400 - 140.43

Ported Exhaust -

• .050 - 35.38
• .100 - 65.88
• .150 - 93.73
• .200 - 113.50
• .250 - 130.63
• .300 - 139.92
• .350 - 146.33
• .400 - 151.20

More to come......

[knightrous]

Looks like the exhaust work has made a decent increase in the higher lift flow capacity.

[JadeEstevez]

I love the way Oldeskewltoy is so chill and doesn't really give a fuck about that 101gze dick You just keep doing your great work man! Ignore that ass. Trolls like that are on any forum, They think they know everything.

[MWP]

The problem is that 101gze dick did make some good points

OST has no real world results to back his work up.
Flow bench results do not show the full story.

If you want to see a pro head guy at work, look at TK's (Tony Knight, he is here in Adelaide) work on PF.
Ie: http://performanceforums.com/forums/...arged-insanity!

[SmokinSquirrel]

Question to OldSkewlToy, what material are you using for port comparison castings, and how readily available is it?
The castings can come out of the head without too much effort?
Will be porting my 5MG head and want to make sure im fairly accurate and symmetrical.

[oldeskewltoy]

Nearly a 2 week delay...

I had a talk with my client, he is hoping for an exhaust to intake flow ratio approaching 80%. This is going to be extraordinarily difficult because the stock Blacktop flows about 61%, and the first attempt at porting the exhaust side did improve things, now 67%, but a further gain of 13% seems a long goal at best.

My first attempt at porting the exhaust was limited because I didn't have a gasket to know where my edges were, and I didn't want to port beyond the gasket, for doing that would cause serious flow issues. So the initial porting on #4 exhaust was from about 33.6 to about 33.7, because not knowing the exhaust gasket left me a bit in the dark.

My client sent me the OEM gasket



Port on far right is #4, even with the gasket in the "down" position, there is still some room available in the port roof, and room all the way around the port.

So now that I had a gasket, work begins on #2 exhaust port. Redline is the gaskets edge.






A bit more dramatic....





The stock Blacktop gasket outlet is 36mm. Port #2 is now out to 34.8mm





Later this week I'll get this on the bench and see what if any improvement there is over the first numbers.

Question to OldSkewlToy, what material are you using for port comparison castings, and how readily available is it?
The castings can come out of the head without too much effort?
Will be porting my 5MG head and want to make sure im fairly accurate and symmetrical.

Pro Sil 1000. Make sure the catalyst is fresh! I use a cork screw to remove the finished castings





more to come....

[SmokinSquirrel]

Pro Sil 1000. Make sure the catalyst is fresh! I use a cork screw to remove the finished castings

Thanks for the reply bud, looks the goods (y)

[oldeskewltoy]

Later this week I'll get this on the bench and see what if any improvement there is over the first numbers.

The numbers @ 28".......

Ported Exhaust (#4 - port on left) -

• .050 - 35.38
• .100 - 65.88
• .150 - 93.73
• .200 - 113.50
• .250 - 130.63
• .300 - 139.92
• .350 - 146.33

More to come......

"New" exhaust port readings, #2 port - on right

• .050 - 34.98
• .100 - 65.03
• .150 - 93.67
• .200 - 113.32
• .250 - 131.88
• .300 - 142.53
• .350 - 150.92

The reason testing stopped @ .350 was my client is limited to 9mm of lift (.354")



So now the intake @ .350" is @ 197.8cfm, while the exhaust is now @ 150.9, the exhaust to intake flow ratio is now a tick over 75% at peak lift, and over the lift range the exhaust to intake ratio is now about 71.5% (was 61%)


More to come.....

[oldeskewltoy]

a few views of working the exhaust side.....


minimizing the guide boss, and tapering the guide - both to minimize their effect on the outgoing exhaust flow



reshaping the exhaust port - maximizing flow



3 ports down.... one to go




more to come.....