Gearbox for 3s Beams Turbo

[Allister]

G'day guy's

I want to turbo a 3sge beams from an Altezza, Wondering how strong the standard 6 speed is, and if there is easy upgrade. (ie r154 or w series)

Even if some one knows a site that they can steer me towards? any help would be appreciatd.

Cheers

[old_school_jap1]

People talk of the Altezza J160 failing around 200kw, I haven't seen one busted personally, but I haven't been looking.
W box swap is easy enough, just get a manual SA63 Celica bellhousing (passenger's side starter) or a 4Y to G52 Hilux/Tarago bellhousing (driver's side starter). The 4Y to G52 bellhousing will not work without a relocation of one of the holes.

[Billzilla]

I can't see the six-speed breaking in a hurry, they should be plenty strong enough as they're fitted behind Nissan SR20DET's AFAIK.
Should take a good 300 ft-lbs no probs.

[ddeane]

Allister

I am using a j160 (the beams 6 speed gearbox) behind a 1ggte that has quite a bit more than 200rwkw. I had heard some concern regarding these gearboxes having some problems with increased torque being put through them, so did a bit of research.

Looking at some nissan sites there are some comments regarding their use in s15. I do note that lots of the comments (well most) are very dated. It appears as though most of the issues relate to a failure of a 3rd gear circlip under high torque applications. The fix appears to be deepening the 'groove' that the circlip sits in as internal flexing seem to allow the circlip to dislodge. This seems to occur as a result of hard shift applications, ie drag racing.

My experience of the gearbox is very positive, and I have found the gear shift to be great and the gear ratios well matched to the turbo application. I should note that I am not hard on cars and do not tend to break things but am very happy to have a fang at Wakefield when I get the chance

Craig

[Shifty]

I can't see the six-speed breaking in a hurry, they should be plenty strong enough as they're fitted behind Nissan SR20DET's AFAIK.
Should take a good 300 ft-lbs no probs.

And you know what the 200sx boys do? They swap them out for the older 5 speed.

[Billzilla]

And you know what the 200sx boys do? They swap them out for the older 5 speed.

Really? Why do they do that?

[Allister]

Thanks guys,

The way i read it, the altezza 6 speed is the same as the S15 6 speed?

Anyway it sounds like it is good for anything around 200 rwkw, I was thinking more along the lines of forged pistons, rods, and around 18-20psi and 250rwkw, i soughta thought even a w box might be at its limit at this point.

If thats the case the next best thing i can think of is an r154, i guess this would require a custom bellhousing/adapter?

I would rather spend the money on a reliable set up rather than running on the limit, I will be drifting and circuit racing, so i will give it a hard time (not trying to kill it though!!)

Cheers

[jzk25]

Really? Why do they do that?

Because they are ham fisted muppets that *need* 7 plate clutches because teh SR20 is so powerful. /italics

The box should handle normal motorsport and reasonable power levels. It doesn't take a genius to work out why S15 owners are smashing them.

[Valkyrie]

One of the guys here in Tassie runs an R154 behind his 3SGTE (in an AE86). His engine has over 260kw at the rear wheels. It is used in a drift car, so as you can imagine the gearbox receives a hard time.

I've got a W57 living behind a 1JZGTE that I dirft, and it is fine. I think the type of clutch has a large bearing on how long your gearbox survives (within reason).

[assassin10000]

FYI a 3vz or 5vz bellhousing will allow usage of the R154 behind the 3s in RWD configuration.

The 3vz was the 'ideal' one for the beams due to the location of the starter being on the intake side. The 5vz puts it on the exhaust side IIRC.

Andrew

[old_school_jap1]

Can you confirm that? I was going to post that, but it was purely theoretical, I've never physically done it.

[assassin10000]

Got the info from here:

http://www.dorikaze.net/showthread.p...ht=3sge&page=2

its a 3vzfrom a v6 4x4 4runner.the thing bolts perfectly to the 3s. i havent checked yet if the imput shaft goes up against the pilot bearing as i havent pressed one into the 3s flywheel. , it does stand the engine up right and the 3s needs a 20 degree slant to the passangerside in rwd application for proper oil drainage. im just going to bend the shifter to fit the ae86. the flywheel also need the ring gear flipped so that the chamfer is on the other side, as the starter is on the oppiste side of the block and and goes in the oppiste way as a fwd awd style starter.

With an Altezza/Blacktop Beams 3s you don't need the slant, as it was designed to be upright. Unfortunately he didn't get much further than that, but I did measure a 3vz bell at the yard a couple months back and IIRC it was the same length as the 7mgte bellhousing on the R154 I have.

I can't 100% confirm, but it looks pretty likely to work to me. Besides the usual spigot/pilot bearing & flywheel choice issues...

Andrew

[bazzery]

Digging up an old thread as I'm trying to fit a W57 to a Beams 3SGE as we just killed 3rd gear in the 6 speed. (would not select) This is behind a stock engine in an Improved Production car, locked diff, race tyres. I don't think it takes torque to break them, but maybe some heavy loading. Drifting is harsh on things but remember the tyres are turning not trying to keep maximum grip!

[beerhead]

Problem with those R bellhousings is you need to machine down the input shaft of the R154 as the R150 is shorter, or make a spacer that sits behind the bellhousing. If you search the for sale section for posts from me selling one of these housings someone posted up a pic of there spacer.

[bazzery]

Thanks Beerhead for the info. Had a quick look but couldn't find the pic. I bought the gearbox from a guy who has done the conversion and he told me what bellhousing to get which I've managed to get. He hasn't said that I'm going to need to space it but I haven't got to that stage yet as clearance for the starter going over to the passenger side is being an issue. First the breather return line was in the way but can modify that but there is also a coolant line in the way which I'm not exactly sure what it does.

This is the coolant line (rubber and top fitting)


And this was the oil return

[old_school_jap1]

Bazzery, Beerhead's comments were not directed at you but at the post above yours where R series gearboxes were being discussed. If you have a bellhousing from a Y engined Hilux or an SA63 Celica then the W series gearbox conversion is relatively simple. I believe you can use the clutch and flywheel that the 6 speed used with the W box

[RONA]

Drifting is harsh on things but remember the tyres are turning not trying to keep maximum grip!

Drifting breaks stuff from the shock loading on the boxes from clutch kicking etc generally not continous torque loading.

[assassin10000]

Bazzery, Beerhead's comments were not directed at you but at the post above yours where R series gearboxes were being discussed. If you have a bellhousing from a Y engined Hilux or an SA63 Celica then the W series gearbox conversion is relatively simple. I believe you can use the clutch and flywheel that the 6 speed used with the W box

Forgot about this thread. But in the time between then & now I also learned about the R-154 input being too long as Beerhead states. And for it to be compatible you either need to machine the input or use a spacer, when using the 3vz/5vz bellhousing to mate a r154 to the 3s.



Bazzery,

All your 'left' side engine clearance issues would go away if you were using a Y-series engine bellhousing, instead of a 2S. Although it may run into new problems with the steering shaft on the right.

Andrew