GT-Four ST185 3SGTE Stroker Upgrade

[=dam0=]

Hey Y'all,

Just thought I'd introduce myself first, my name's =dam0= and I'm running a white JDM ST185 GT-Four, fully stock except for the hood (Gp A) and a 3 inch exhaust. Oh and some nice shiny 17inch Osaka racing rims (gotta have a bit of rice in your diet.. )

I've been researching the idea of dropping a Stroked 3SGTE in there with a GT3017R Turbo to help increase power across the rev range.

I've done some research on the web as to how effective a stroked 3SGTE would be in a GT-Four, and all I keep finding is MR2 applications. My question is this, is a stroked 3SGTE with a big turbo gonna suit the 4WD drive train of the GT-Four, or is it best used for RWD cars.

There was one guy who did it ("The Shuttle") but if anyone has any more info, or recommendations, experiences with this, I'd appreciate your input

D

[The Real Roadrunner]

any effective stroker engine is a good addition to any engine bay, doesnt matter if its FF,FR,4WD or MR.

why not just do the gt3071 first to see if it makes it too laggy b4 doing the stroker.
doin a stroker 3s aint as cheap as first thought if you want it done properly.

cheers
linden

[=dam0=]

yeh that's the plan, the stock turbo's on it's way out atm, so this'll be going in asap. Gotta fix the rear hub assembly first though...

Torque is ultimately what I'm after though, as the ST185 isn't the quickest car off the mark.

Thanks for the info.

[The Real Roadrunner]

gt2871 with a .64 rear housing and away you go, bugger all lag and fairly punchy in the topend also.
GT2871R_472560_15 is the model id choose as it would be perfect for street use.
if you want more than say 210-15awkw then go for a gt3076r and be prepared to wait a while for it to hit the boost threshold.

cheers
linden

[bje10s]

welcome to the 3sgte family

firstly you need a aim on what you want your car to do and a budget to match.if you want a track,drift,drag,dyno then ther are alot of different approaches than than using a stroker kit it might be abit of waste of money if you really dont need you engine to support huge amounts of power. change the little thing that restrict your car 1st box, exhaust etc... then turbo and then you might be happy with the output

ive got a 95 sw20 turbo import with a gen2 engine. when i picked up my mister2 it had i blown turbo my goal was to have a quick lil street/track car.

i did alot of research and found that the gen3 turbo "ct20b" would provide what i wanted quick spool 2000-2100rpm and a pull to the redline. i found one in japan that was in mint condition and inexpensive shipping took ages but when i put it in and the rest of my upgrades ic, bov, 3'turboback exhaust, boost controller, highflow manifold, ems comp, k&n pod, bored tb i was very happy. i also had the choice of a blitz turbo(still trying to find the link) but that might be in the future

it now spools @1900rpm and pulls into the redline. they are a worthy upgrade on a gen2 3sgte, but as i said before u need a goal before you start fitting anything to the car, if you do it right the 1st time you wont end up wasting alot of money later on.

hope this helps out abit

[=dam0=]

I've been looking into setting it up as a streetable track car, something I can drive around in but also be very competitive on the track, and of course the old hill climb. My concern is that by doing everything except the engine, there will be too much pressure on the engine (170kms old) meaning it'll need to be repaired and upgraded anyway.

The other thing is, is if you're gonna fix the engine up and upgrade all the internals, you might as well go the extra step and stroke it while it's all in bits. Decent torque and take off is my major aim in doing this, coz the car's just too damn heavy to get a decent start in.

So having an early spool up isn't essential, I mean (and I'm no mechanic by any means) it seems to me that if there's more torque, then then revs will climb faster, generating boost quicker, which means that it doesn't really matter if the turbo's a bit laggier if it will carry it further in the end. If I'm way off here, let me know though...

D

[abently]

Just raise the standard CR. You'll need to have the car re-tuned but the stock 3S-GE in very good shape is enough to spin 205 wide med-brand tires in 1st and a little in 2nd with heavy 17" wheels....

I'ld personally run forged N/A Pistons (with Turbo rings if possible otherwise custom Pistons) with just a slightly thicker Head gasket to reduce squish which is not-so good in medium-serious Forced induction engines running pump Fuel.

[oldcorollas]

Just raise the standard CR. You'll need to have the car re-tuned but the stock 3S-GE in very good shape is enough to spin 205 wide med-brand tires in 1st and a little in 2nd with heavy 17" wheels....

they must be pretty shit tyres to spin all 4 wheels with an NA 3S-GE

thing with the stroker is.. if you increase capacity from say.. 2L to 2.2L.. you potentially have 10% more torque. that's it.
10% of 40kw when off throttle is not a big change.... but 10% of 300kw is....

[=dam0=]

I'm not sure what you mean by "standard CR" or "squish"

[The Real Roadrunner]

probly the best thing you could do b4 even touching the engine would be to get your hands on an st205 G/box and put that in as it will give you the increased takeoff and shorter gearing required for hill climbs as well as still being streetable.

the prob with most strokers is your alredy starting with a shite rod/stroke ratio then going to make it worse.

have you thought about putting the all alloy 1mz engine in, 3 litres of instant punch and later on just turbo that. bugger all increase in weight (some say its lighter) and better drivability.

cheers
linden

[Billzilla]

have you thought about putting the all alloy 1UZ engine in, 4 litres of instant punch and just twin-turbo that like Justen the crazy bastard has?

cheers
linden

Fixed.

(10char)

[abently]

they must be pretty shit tyres to spin all 4 wheels with an NA 3S-GE

thing with the stroker is.. if you increase capacity from say.. 2L to 2.2L.. you potentially have 10% more torque. that's it.
10% of 40kw when off throttle is not a big change.... but 10% of 300kw is....

No, SW20 so only 2WD.... sorry I forgot this was a GT-Four not a regular st185.

I understand the Torque increase, but realistically, you'ld be better of just going with a larger capacity if you can keep the weight the same.

Standard CR means standard Compression ratio, squish is the min distance between the Piston and the Cylinder Head.

Whats the Engine condition like ? As Factory tends to match Engines to vehicle weights quite well so I dare say, maybe best to do a Compression and leak-down test and then evaluate if just a mild-performance rebuild will be fine ?

[=dam0=]

nah I'm not really interested in changing engines, as much fun as it sounds, I still want to keep it as much a GT-Four as possible. You know, bomb the hell out of it so it's essentially completely rebuilt, but still a GT-Four running a 3SGTE.

I've been on the lookout for a st205 GB for ages, but alas they are as rare as rocking horse sh!t...

As for the engine condition, she seems to be pretty solid. We did a Compression Test a few months back, and she's all good, has a minor oil leak in a difficult spot to get to, and the turbo's on it's way out, but yeh she still pulls hard.

So my understanding of this discussion is that the Stroker option isn't really gonna do too much for the money spent? A bit more torque, but nothing substantial. So if strokers don't do that much, why do it at all? I heard that Toyota dropped a stroked 3SGTE into a Supra for the LeManns and it did quite well, as the engine was lighter than the standard TT V6.

I spose at the end of the day, I want everything thats upgraded to be upgraded completely, so there's no too-ing and fro-ing fixing up bits that should have already been done, resulting in changing other already upgraded bit's coz they aren't compatible anymore etc. In other words I don't want to upgrade the engine, only to have to do it again later to stroke it. I'm not one for half measures. Do it right, do it once.

[Jorrs]

No, SW20 so only 2WD.... sorry I forgot this was a GT-Four not a regular st185.

I understand the Torque increase, but realistically, you'ld be better of just going with a larger capacity if you can keep the weight the same.

Standard CR means standard Compression ratio, squish is the min distance between the Piston and the Cylinder Head.

Whats the Engine condition like ? As Factory tends to match Engines to vehicle weights quite well so I dare say, maybe best to do a Compression and leak-down test and then evaluate if just a mild-performance rebuild will be fine ?

what are you saying, A GT4 is a 185

[=dam0=]

I had an engine builder in the US quote me on a Stroked 3SGTE. This is what it included:

Stage III Block:
3S block, torque plate bored, honed, deglazed, vatted, cleaned, painted, assembled
5S crank destroked to 3S rod sizes, balanced with rotating assembly, micropolished
King Engine Bearings & Thrust Washers
CP 86.5MM forged pistons, 9.0:1 compression, .020 over bore
Pauter Rods (stock with ARP's)
ARP Headstuds
ARP Mains
New OEM seals, gaskets, oil strainers, rear seal retainer
Cometic MLS Headgasket
MCS High Pressure 3S Oil Pump
OEM Water Pump
Timing Belt, tensioner

Stage III Head Port and Polished:
Ferrea 1mm OS valves
HKS 264 cams
Engle Valvesprings
Fidanza Adj. Cam gears
Add 1ZZ Shimless Buckets

The Rest:
AEM P&P EMS
Wolfkatz TFFR
Wolfkatz 1150cc TF Injectors
Walbro Fuel Pump Kit
MCS Pro-Lite 350 fuel line kit
GT3071R Turbo Kit
SPEC Stage IV Clutch
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel

Rekons it'll be a real ball tearer.

Obviously this is just the engine list, suspension, brakes, FMIC, strut braces etc still need to be looked into. Gearbox will be rebuilt eventually too.

My question is, how effective will this setup be without the stroker option. The whole, "do I don't I" scenario. Like I sed guy's I'm not a mechanic, I just like driving.

[=dam0=]

Jorrs, the ST185 is the GT-Four Celica (3SGTE), the ST182 is the SX Celica (3SGE)

[The Real Roadrunner]

Jorrs, the ST185 is the GT-Four Celica (3SGTE), the ST182 is the SX Celica (3SGE)

i think youll find hes having a dig at abently's random whoring.

cheers
linden

[abently]

Yes, I know my Toyotas like the back of my hand.

If this is a vehicle your going to keep for ever, go the stroker. If it's not, then just go Higher static Compression.

[Moppitt]

So my understanding of this discussion is that the Stroker option isn't really gonna do too much for the money spent? A bit more torque, but nothing substantial. So if strokers don't do that much, why do it at all? I heard that Toyota dropped a stroked 3SGTE into a Supra for the LeManns and it did quite well, as the engine was lighter than the standard TT V6.

IIRC Toyota ran some form of 3s in the GT500 series in japan in the supra because they could get the regulated max power from that engine so didnt need the larger, ?heavier 2JZ. That also allowed them to position the engine for better weight distribution. Im not sure about the Lemanns series though but that could be indicative of the reasoning.

Id guess they would run a stroker for torque as in that kind of racing 1% is worth getting and paying a lot for.. just a guess though..

[oldcorollas]

Yes, I know my Toyotas like the back of my hand.
If this is a vehicle your going to keep for ever, go the stroker. If it's not, then just go Higher static Compression.

No, SW20 so only 2WD.... sorry I forgot this was a GT-Four not a regular st185.

err... SW20 is MR2... ST185 IS a GT4....

so you know what like what?