Supra Na to Turbo

[slewis]

Hey Guys,

Im currently in the market to buy myself a new car and have been looking at the mk4 jza80 supra.

Now I cant justify outlaying the money required to buy a TT supra RZ, but i can for a NA SZ. But ideally i would like a turbo powered car.

My idea is to buy myself a manual NA SZ supra and turbo it, but not in the conventional way of just bolting on a turbo to the NA motor. I have looked into the idea of creating a 1.5j however and this seems promising. To make a 1.5j from what i have read you need to use a NA 2j block. Is it possible at all to do this in the supra? buy the 1jz head, intake manifold, loom and ecu etc and mate the 2j block to the head? Use a single turbo and high mount manifold and hopefully make 250 - 270rwkw's reliably.

Would using a aftermarket ecu make the job easier? ie a microtech...

I have a good friend of mine that is a stainless fabricator so things such as dump pipes and cooler piping is not an issue.

Thanks in advance for your replies,

Neil

ps. I know i am going to get alot of ppl telling me the 1j head isnt as good as the 2j and some the opposite. My reasoning for trying to use the 1j head is simply because that is what i have been told will work with the 2j na block and the availability of 1j heads seems to be better then 2j's.

[Screamn_Sleeka]

If money is a problem (cant afford a JZA80 turbo, can afford JZA80 n/a), then u certainly can not do any engine swaps or real mods, which includes making a 1.5JZ

There is no way in hell you can "jsut buy a 1JZ head" etc and make a 1.5JZ cheaper than jsut waking in a 1 or 2JZ-GTE.

I dont know anything about these cars, or even the engines, buts its obvious you should start on something smaller and cheaper. Chances are its going to be involved in a accident that will write it off within 2 years anyway.

Oh, and a microtech probably costs more than the difference between a "RZ" and a "SZ"

[Jorrs]

agreed, for all that extra work you seem intent to carry out, the mods, ecu blah blah
i would just save that money with what you have and actually save up for the TT..
it will be a better end result and you will save money, as you will pump ALOT of money into your plans.

[EldarO]

agreed with above.

Elmo.

[slewis]

If money is a problem (cant afford a JZA80 turbo, can afford JZA80 n/a), then u certainly can not do any engine swaps or real mods, which includes making a 1.5JZ

There is no way in hell you can "jsut buy a 1JZ head" etc and make a 1.5JZ cheaper than jsut waking in a 1 or 2JZ-GTE.

I dont know anything about these cars, or even the engines, buts its obvious you should start on something smaller and cheaper. Chances are its going to be involved in a accident that will write it off within 2 years anyway.

Oh, and a microtech probably costs more than the difference between a "RZ" and a "SZ"

Well when a sz costs close to $14,000 for a manual version and a turbo variant starts at roughly $24,000 sometimes as much as $36,000 theres a minimum $10,000 difference. The problem isnt that i cant afford to get the turbo model, but if i can create a car for less money and get similar results why wouldnt i? I do all the work on the cars i have owned myself with the help of friends and havent had many problems at all to date.

The problem with just waking in a 2jz is that alot of other things need to be changed, its not just a simple swap as the sz and the rz differ quite a bit. However using the 1jz head from what i have been reading seems to be the easier route.

Why is it you believe this car will be involved in a accident? My previous cars have all been fairly high power (S13 with 230rwkw for example) and have not been involved in 1 accident to date. I have easy access to qld raceway as my father is the CEO out there and do get to drive quite a few different types of cars including formula fords.

And from what you can see above the cost of a microtech is not the difference between a sz or a rz.

Now could someone that knows something on this subject please respond.

Neil

[haison]

Might actually be easier to buy a 2jz halfcut.. They're expensive yes, but if the price difference between the turbo and non turbo varients is at least 10k the cut'd still come in cheaper.. just... maybe.

[EldarO]

Well when a sz costs close to $14,000 for a manual version and a turbo variant starts at roughly $24,000 sometimes as much as $36,000 theres a minimum $10,000 difference. The problem isnt that i cant afford to get the turbo model, but if i can create a car for less money and get similar results why wouldnt i? I do all the work on the cars i have owned myself with the help of friends and havent had many problems at all to date.

The problem with just waking in a 2jz is that alot of other things need to be changed, its not just a simple swap as the sz and the rz differ quite a bit. However using the 1jz head from what i have been reading seems to be the easier route.

Why is it you believe this car will be involved in a accident? My previous cars have all been fairly high power (S13 with 230rwkw for example) and have not been involved in 1 accident to date. I have easy access to qld raceway as my father is the CEO out there (Keith Lewis) and do get involed with quite a few events including formula fords. Now before you shoot your mouth off get some details.

And from what you can see above the cost of a microtech is not the difference between a sz or a rz.

Now could someone that knows something on this subject please respond.

Neil

because you CANT.

you think its as simple as bolting a 1J head onto a 2J block?

theres machining involved, its not very well documented, then you need a new turbo as the 1J turbos will be useless on the 2J block, theres wiring, waiting for parts etc. etc.

then you have the microtech, the additional components to make it work, wiring it in, tuning it etc. etc.

where you read that a 1.5 J conversion is easier to do than a straight 2JZGTE conversion i dont know, but id love to see.

you've forgotten complianceing and all that too it seems?

im guessing that last little comment wasnt aimed at me, as i said nothing of you crashing your car etc. but id appreciate if you'd stop acting so condecending to people that are trying to save you money, time, and relationships, as the stress will build, and your patience will wear thinner and thinner as you put up with the problems that your having with so much money invested in something.

Elmo.

[lojik]

I would agree with the above halfcut comment.

You can't just strap a turbo 1jz/2jz head to the 2jzge bottom end.
There is more work to do than that.

[HAVABEER]

please don't ask for people's opinion's and then get angry when they voice them and its not what you wanna hear.


i can see where the above comments are coming from though. from a quick glance on ebay and auto trader the RZ's do seem to go for about 23 - 24k. but there's also some on there for about 19,000. (manual aswell)

and the SZ's cheapest i saw was 13,500 but they seem to average about 16k or 17k.

my only problem going with the 1.5j idea is that if it doesnt work out as planned, then you've just wasted alot of money that could have easily gone to buying an already setup and working RZ.


how much tech support do you have for making the 1.5j say you run into trouble how readily can you get reliable info on what to do next?

also do you know roughly how much the 1j head + loom will be? you wont need the computer if your gunna just use a microtech

[Jorrs]

buy this, and swap his 6 speed into it.. ?
i dunno, just a thought, they are gettin cheaper by the days.

http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars...rtial&R=982260

[EldarO]

http://www.supraforums.com.au/forum/...ad.php?t=27569

theres a link to an RZ for $19K

cheap RZ's are out there, you just have to look.

Elmo.

[whatthe?]

I've seen RZs go much cheaper than 24K. Regardless, before you go thinking of an engine conversion as a money saving idea, consider the following;

Cost of 1JZGTE engine, loom and ECU (unless wanting to use aftermarket management, which will be more anyway)
Cost of head reco for 1J head
Cost of modifications necessary to mate 1J head to 2J block (water galleries have to be re-routed IIRC)
Wiring 1J engine loom into JZA80
Cost of intercooler and pipework
The fact you get a $500 W58 box in a SZ Vs the ultra strong $3000+ getrag 6 speed in the RZ.
Engineering a turbo engine into a N/A car

Add up the costs of these items, double them and you'll be in the ballpark of what this'll cost. Food for thought anyway

[Norbie]

Agree with everything that's been said. I've done plenty of engine swaps/conversions, as have many others on this forum, and everyone will agree that it always costs more, both in terms of time and money, than you think it will on paper - by a factor of 2 or 3. So yes your bastard-child 1.5JZ Supra will end up costing you more than the real deal, without even factoring in the work and the frustration and the skinned knuckles and the pissed-off girlfriend/wife/significant other.

You're also forgetting there are other differences between an SZ and an RZ besides the engine, the most notable being the transmission and clutch. The 5-speed in the SZ will have a limited lifespan behind a 3 litre turbo engine (ask me how I know), and the 6-speed in the RZ is at least twice as strong but will cost upwards of $4-5k to install (again, ask me how I know). Certainly you can cut corners here but it's a big compromise; you haven't created a poor-man's RZ, you've created something very much inferior. And let's not even discuss the resale value of your Frankenstein creation.

There are only two sensible options:
1. Buy an RZ and accept that it costs more money to get a better car.
2. Buy an SZ and accept that it's not turbocharged and not as fast as an RZ.

[EldarO]

dude, if your that set on doing a conversion, take the 2JZGE out and buy a JZA70 manual halfcut.

you get the 1JZGTE which is more powerful, and the R154 gearbox which will handle more power.

all for less than around $5-6k, thats minus your engineering, microtech, tuning etc. etc.

see where ALL of us are getting our logic from? we've been there, we've done it! its not cheap, or straight forward!

Elmo.

[MR22ZZ]

One thing people haven't mentioned yet is Brakes. Those on the RZ are huge mothers compared to the SZ, and for a reason. An engineer would require you to upgrade the brakes if you go turbo as well, which would cost you a pretty packet.

[Norbie]

Contrary to popular belief, the RZ does not necessarily have larger brakes than the SZ. Quite a few early RZ's have the smaller 2/1 pot brakes, and conversely some SZ's have the big 4/2 pot brakes.

[slewis]

Sorry if i came across angry, but it just seems as though if i was to ask the question like i did the first answer i get is "dont do it" without even justifying why.

Now that it has been explained by some others that it is indeed a more pricey way of doing it, i have taken this information on board and im going to have to re think my plans. I didnt say that it was easy but i was asking for advice as to how i would go about it, i have been involved with a few conversions all be it in nissans (ie rb20/25's into S13's and a CA18 into a datto 1200) and these are all pretty straight forward.

I have obviously been looking in the wrong place for supras as the cheapest i found was $24,000.

I have no problems with anyone here giving me advice, thats why i asked, but i was after reasons why it would not be a wise way to go about it, not just some one saying "dont do it, your gonna write off your car".

Again sorry and thankyou to those that have given justification in their replies.

Neil

[mrshin]

Another thing... If you planned on using a different ECU, turbo, etc., then why would you bother with a 1JZ head?

[Alchemist]

Head over to www.supraforums.com.au and search for NA-T or look in the projects section and there is a guy converting an SZ-R to a TT.

Been covered to death over there.

[PT1]

Exhaust - 1.5k
Turbo + manifold - 1.5k
ECU - 1.5k
FMIC - $500 cheap chinese kit
Wiring etc - $500

There is 6.5k without even trying. Then you have brakes to look at, engineering, etc, plus the time and effort you'd have to go to.

Im from a nissan background as well, and the problem with Supra's is the cost of front cuts. 25's and 20's are cheap compared to a 2J.

The 1JZ option for $1500 could go half alright, but then you have a late Supra with a 1J..... resale might suck the big one, and you miss the whole point of a late model Supra.