3S-GTE differences??

[Wildsupra]

Is there any differences between the heads on a 165 3S and a 185 3S? Are the intake and exhaust manifolds interchangable? And what are some first step upgrades for a 165 3S motor?
Also what sort of boost should a stock 165 3S run?

Cheers
Matty

[Jorrs]

no the heads are the same, dont no bout intake and zorst id say it would be pretty similar, for upgrades id say look at the turbo and perhaps freshen it up, then u can look at more boost, the motor will run 6 psi stock and the ecu will let u make 15 psi before it cuts u, it has the WTA cooler on it which is pretty good but upgrades would also be a FMIC and a bigger dump pipe of turbo prob 3 inch, i would also recomend changinf the headgasket perhaps putting a stronger one on it before u run into any troubles, say a stainless steel one, wat are your plans for the engine ?

[StuC]

185 had oil squirters in the block, 165 didnt. 185 also had twin entry turbo and thus is slightly different to the 165. A good upgrade is the 185 turbo and manifold(which is different due to the twin entry). Intake on the 185 also went over the top of the engine. A good upgrade for both is to use the st162 intake (gen1 3sge) as it runs behind and thus wont have as much heat soak. You may or may not want to remove TVIS when doing this.

[Jorrs]

also a good upgrade for turbo is wat mine has had done to it which is a full rebuilt and highflow using T4 internals, as the stock turbo is ceramic and wont handle much boost but all depending on wat the turbo is like i guess.

[StuC]

true, hi-flow is always good. But i think the aus spec 185 turbos had steel wheels. im pretty sure thats the case. either way, the twin entry is always going to be more responsive than a single and they can be picked up quite cheaply. So, ct26 twin hi-flowed will probably be capable of handling up to about 22psi or thereabouts. Otherwise get your hands on a ct20B and manifold from a gen3

[Aust162]

On a 165, the 7mgte ct26 is the best upgrade. both single entry.

Pretty sure i read somewhere that the gen1 and gen2 3sgte head's are different..

Waiting for Lance to chime in here

[BeRad]

when you say upgrades what budget do you have, i wouldnt bother with hiflowing the ct26 1200 bucks for around that price u can pick up a brand new ball bearing unit that will make more power of course it will cost you a bit more for new lines etc, so wat budget do these upgrades have to be in

[Wildsupra]

The engine will be being put into a much lighter car than the celica, and no doubt will need to modified or messed with a little to make it fit, however the engine will need to remain as stock as possible until the car has passed engineering by the "pole eec". the turbo looks to be almost brand new and the engine has extremely low k's on it aswell. I think i will start with simple things like dump pipe for now until its passed engineering. Who knows how it is going to perform in the lighter car anyways, i may find 14-15psi is heaps

The budget has not been determined as yet, it will simply keep getting modified until it runs the times i want it too. Just would prefer not to waste money in the wrong areas, which is why im chasing some info on preffered mods.

Cheers
Matty

[BeRad]

to be safe id replace the hg to a metal item with new arp studs obviously, at the least if your going to run 14psi or so alot of guys find 14psi is fine on the stock hg but 50% of the time it will break after a while.

[Wildsupra]

Yeah sounds like headgasket will be the first thing. At least that will allow me to fit manifold and bigger turbo as soon as im ready without any worries.

[EldarO]

hopefully you wont make me do it?

the bling garage has alot of work to do matty

Eldar.O.

[-==L=a=N=c=E==-]

Is there any differences between the heads on a 165 3S and a 185 3S? Are the intake and exhaust manifolds interchangable? And what are some first step upgrades for a 165 3S motor?
Also what sort of boost should a stock 165 3S run?

Cheers
Matty

Yes, there are differences between the heads.
uses different cams, difference sized valves and different castings. For example, you can't use ST185 cams in a ST165 head since they are differently sized.

The manifolds are interchangeable.

First step in upgrading a 165 motor. IMHO, is to sell it, and go straight to a st185 engine. They are so cheap these days from engine importers, i don't see why anyone would waste there time on the 165 engine unless they are inhibited by racing rules or the like.

The bottom end on a 165 isn't as strong as a stock ST185. The stock st165 bottom end is only good for around 10psi on the stock CT26.

[Joshstix]

The St165 also has smaller buckets in the head which precludes you from having decent cams ground for it. Sure a couple of company's have aftermarket cams for it but they have very little lift.

I have to agree with Lance, as much as I like the 3S the St165 engine is a nugget. The amount of work in putting it into anything significantly lighter than a ST165, other than a 162 I guess, is in no way worth the effort. The Gen 2 engine is so much stronger and more power productive it is not funny.

[Wildsupra]

Are the 2 motors identical in physical size? and do they bolt up to the same mounts?
Basically if i build mounts to fit my 165 motor in then later down the track bought a 185 motor would it be a simple bolt out bolt in situation?

The thing is i have the motor complete with everything ready to go, so i dont really want to go to the hassle of selling it then looking for another COMPLETE engine package.

Matty

[hamgatan]

The engine will be being put into a much lighter car than the celica, and no doubt will need to modified or messed with a little to make it fit

why do i get the impression im likely to bump into you again on malaga dve in a 3SGTE powered AW11 sometime soon?

[cycleofabuse]

Are the 2 motors identical in physical size? and do they bolt up to the same mounts?
Basically if i build mounts to fit my 165 motor in then later down the track bought a 185 motor would it be a simple bolt out bolt in situation?

Yeah they will both bolt in the same.

[Wildsupra]

why do i get the impression im likely to bump into you again on malaga dve in a 3SGTE powered AW11 sometime soon?

HAHAH i dunno, do you normally predict the future MWUHAHAHHAHAHA

Matty

[Jorrs]

well i have a 165 motor and im gonna chirp in and say that the power differences between 1st and 2nd gen are pretty small, and that my 165 motor stock goes harder then an 185 motor stock and all i have is turbo work done, and it is quite happy to run 12 psi also the WTA cooler doesnt suffer from heat soak issues as on the 185 motors... also i ran 14 psi on my motor after having the headgasket done and the like and i have to say my car was one quick lil car (its an st162 ) just tryin to keep the 1st gen rep up

[Jorrs]

there is a 10 HP power difference between 1st and 2nd gen.... so take that

[Wildsupra]

well i have a 165 motor and im gonna chirp in and say that the power differences between 1st and 2nd gen are pretty small, and that my 165 motor stock goes harder then an 185 motor stock and all i have is turbo work done, and it is quite happy to run 12 psi also the WTA cooler doesnt suffer from heat soak issues as on the 185 motors... also i ran 14 psi on my motor after having the headgasket done and the like and i have to say my car was one quick lil car (its an st162 ) just tryin to keep the 1st gen rep up

Respekt!!!!
Thankyou my good man, you have made me feel much better about going to all the effort to install my "lower" power 3S-GTE

10hp pff i'l just remove the air filter to gain back the 10hp

Cheers
Matty