Car won't start after long time in backyard (5M-E)

[Brett]

Some of you may know me from here: http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=19102

The car has been sitting in my backyard for over a year now, and the last time it was started was a few months ago, maybe close to 6 months. The last time I'd tried to start it was about 3 months ago, and it sounded like the starter had finally given up the ghost (had been clicking since the day I bought the car). So I tried tapping it with a hammer, bridging it etc. but it was beyond a make-shift fix. I took the starter out (http://forums.celicasupra.com/showpo...&postcount=37), and had it refurbished yesterday by an auto-electrician, last night I put the starter back in and was so excited to turn the key...it whirred around a bit, but my battery didn't have enough power...

So I waited for my mum to come home and tried her battery, the starter seemed to function fine, better than ever, but the car just woudln't start. It doesn't even kick once.

After reading up about stale fuel (fuel was over a year old in the tank), I got a mate around to help me syphon out the old stuff and put in some fresh stuff, but still not one kick. We then tried checking the spark plugs to see if they were sparking, and even though they were grimey as, they still did. We gave them all a clean, put them back in, still nothing. By then it was around 2am, went to bed, and I'm posting this after just waking up the next day...

Please keep in mind that I have next to no mechanical knowledge. My friend said it might be that the fuel line is clogged, or that the engine itself is full of water/gunk. I tried again just a second ago, still nothing, but I thought I should check the spark plugs again to see if they were covered in sludge again or anything, but they were dry as a bone, I guess this means that no fuel is getting into the compression chamber bit?

I double checked that everything was connected properly, the only one I found that wasn't connected looked pretty important, it's a green electrical plug, but I can't find where it is supposed to connect to...


Thanks heaps for any suggestions.

*edit* When I was taking out the starter motor, I was told by a mechanic that it would be fine to take out this thing:


He said it was just a heater pump, so I haven't bothered to put it back in yet. Can someone confirm it is only a heater pump? Lots of coolant like fluid poured out of it when I disconnected it, and it also connects onto the engine block bit...but I highly doubt it has any effect on the engine not starting.

[slide86]

first up. that other item that you removed looks like a heater tap, to let coolant into the heater core. how are you going to block it up from the block to stop the coolant from flowing out?

i would connect it back up, its there for a reason.

does the engine crank over when the spark plugs are removed? if it spins over quickly then the engine isnt seized. you need to make sure there is fuel pressure there, try pulling of a fuel line on the rail and see if fuel shoots off when the ignition is tured on. if there is none then the fuel pump is dead or there is a major blockage.

these are some things to check when starting up an engine after it hasnt been started for a while.

i have a ms123 wiht a 5me. i start it every few months. it starts first go with a good battery, although it blows a fair bit of smoke (the enigne is gone)

[Brett]

Ok, I'll reconnect the heater tap.

I haven't tried starting it with the spark plugs removed, it spins over quicky with the spark plugs connected though...it wouldn't spin over quickly at all regardless of spark plugs if it was siezed right?

Not too sure where the fuel line is, is it on the left or right side of the engine? The only rail bit I found looked like it connected to the air filter...

Thanks for help

[30psi 4agte]

another thing you can try is to discinnect the black pipe that goes to the throttle body crack the throttle open and squirt some raw fuel down there and then try and start it.

If it wants to start then you know you have a fuel issue

[mic*]

A couple of checks for fuel issues;

Go round to the back of the car put your head down low, and get someone to turn the key to "ON". You should*** be able to hear the fuel pump pressurising the system.

If you put a straw down the spark plug hole of a cylinder, and smell (not sniff), you should be able to smell fuel strongly if its getting in there and not being burnt.

Without a gauge, my thoughts on the best place to check the fuel system for pressure is the return line after the pressure regulator. If fuel is making it to there any other fuel prob must be at the injectors.

***NOTE: All fuel lines before the pressure regulator MAY contain pressurised fuel at ANY TIME, and removal without properly depressurising the system (running the engine till it dies with the fuel relay pulled out - sorry you cant do it!) will probably result in you getting covered in fuel.

[Enchanter]

...Not too sure where the fuel line is, is it on the left or right side of the engine? The only rail bit I found looked like it connected to the air filter...

The thing you found is part of the emissions crap.
The fuel rail is on the passenger side of the engine, have a dig around in there and you will find it not far under the inlet piping that crosses over the engine.

Cheers

[cambelt]

Check spark and check fuel pressure , i have a ms 123 with a 5m in it , the fuels 5 years old and it still starts within a couple of winds
D

[thechuckster]

engine needs fuel and spark - from that premise you start work backwards:
does it have both (e.g. test for both)?
if it is missing one, at which point in the delivery system do you find it?

a 5ME ignition system is pretty rudimentary - so i'd check that first the move onto the fuel system.

cheers,
Charles.

[cambelt]

Did you get it going.
Toyota pumps dont run with ign on and engine off .you can bridge the 2 pin yellow plug near the air box to make the pump run . (ign on) then you can check the fuel side of things.
The green plug is just a vsv plug , dont worry about it for now.

[Brett]

Haven't tried yet, been freezing cold outside at night (the only time I have free to work on it). I had a good look at the fuel lines to try and work out which ones I needed to check, but it really looks like a job for a hoist. I might have some time to sniff for fuel tomorrow

[thechuckster]

start at the engine and work back - pull some spark plugs and:
sniff for petrol
view for spark

[Robbos_Toyotas]

also, wait till night and disconnet the wire from the dizzy to the coil at the dizzy end - watch when clicking over the motor to see if it sparks - if it does, ignition is good, if it doesnt...coil is rooted. and or ignition wires.

Other thing is fuel filter - if it is blocked from shit lying around, it wont let fuel through so the motor wont run

next id check the fuel pump....get someone to turn the ignition on, jump under the car with ur ear hard up against the fuel tank...if u hear a pump...fuel delivery looks good. If u hear nothing, the pump and or the pump relay are rooted.

[Brett]

Ok, I had a good go at it tonight, and I found a few more things that confused me.

I couldn't hear the fuel pump, even though it might have been working (starter is kinda loud). I did notice tonight though that the exhaust was dumping out air, probably been doing it all along but yeah, I stuck my nose in the tip and it had a real distinct fuel smell.

I've tested all spark plugs, and they all work fine. They're still dry after trying for 20min though, they had a slight smell of fuel to them...

I was told to tap the fuel tank with a rubber mallet to try and dislodge the fuel pump if that was the problem, I don't think it had any effect though. It's only $55 to have all the fuel lines checked and EFI hoses checked, so I think I'll resort to towing it

Thanks heaps for help!

[Robbos_Toyotas]

your meant to try and hear the fuel pump with it on ignition - not when trying to start!

Ok well do you have a multimeter? Turn the car onto ignition (not start) and go to the coil, see if it has 12Volts at it. this means your power is/ isnt getting power to deliver spark

[Enchanter]

Where in Tassie are you Brett ?
If you aren't far I could pop around