Recommendations for TA22 wheel alignment specs.

**frr33q** · 21-05-2015, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by SHEPPO3930

if you want it to turn sharp and make the inside front wheel work mid corner, toe it out.

as much castor as you can get, so pull the bottom of the wheel forward as much as it can go before you hit the front of the quarter guard at full lock.

neg camber of at least 1.5deg. longer LCA's or adjustable strut tops.

if you're 22 has a stock steering box, the steering is never going to be nice and sharp. Never!

if you want the front end to steer nice, do a KE70 rack and xmbr conversion... it's night & day compared to the stock set up.

thanks for your reply SHEPPO

I'm totally realistic about what i can and cant expect from 40+ year old steering engineering and tech..... My concerns are more related to the way this particular Celica is behaving compared to other celica's i have owned in the past, first celica had lowered springs and upgraded shocks with everything else stock and running on standard 165/70 13's, which handled quiet nicely and was actually quiet responsive in the steering , the second had ungraded shocks, springs, sway bars F+R, adjustable strut tops, nolathane bushings and was running around on 225/45 17's and that handled and steered nicely also...

my current Celica with the extensive list of upgrades to suspension as listed above plus the new steering components isn't behaving up to scratch by the standards of my previous celica's... now i do acknowledge that yes i am very fussy but i am also keeping in mind that i'm working with 40 year old engineering.

I know the great benefits to be had from a rack and pinion set up, but i don't consider that to be an option yet as everyone is sketchy on what actually works and doesn't work, and how to go about achieving perfect steering geometry and sourcing the right parts and not affecting offsets etc etc without seriously cutting and shutting parts and components (which i consider to be a serious compromise of structural integrity of those individual components!!). But i am watching that space very closely to see everyone's feedback and when its done right i will be wanting to do the same to my car.

I understand the gain to turn in and mid corner grip from having the wheels toe out, and i do agree with you very much that it does result in this improvement when you toe the wheels out.... this can be seen in my car by how aggressively it wants to switch lanes, but the off center vagueness inherent in a steering box steering system doesn't give the feedback and or control in the steering wheel to run such positive toe out...

from reading up about this a lot in the last few days as i attempt to understand whats happening for me with my car and why its behaving the way it does, i'm starting to understand the following from everyone's feedback:

toeing the wheels out (positive toe) is inherently going to make the car track with the road a lot more, it will track under braking and especially under heavy braking, its going to make the steering a lot more "twitchy" which works against you with the vague feedback/control from steering box systems (this isn't too much of an issue with rack and pinion which gives a lot more feedback and control from the steering wheel), but positive toe has its gains which we've already highlighted above, these gains would only seriously be realized and utilized if you were driving the car at ten tenths on the track or something, obviously the trade off to setting up your old steering box system with positive toe for street driving is that you inheret all of the issues with lack of steering control and precision and compliance...

caster will give improved steering compliance and straight line stability (this will also help over come the car tracking in ruts or under heavy breaking etc and will also somewhat dull the vagueness of the steering box system as it will become more responsive to steering wheel inputs), steering will also have a greater tendency to self center.

Camber: negative camber is an easy one to understand, it places the tyre at an improved angle to the road when cornering (achieving a greater contact patch between tyre/road) which gives greater grip and in turn improves the steering capacity and the cars ability to maintain the same line through a corner at higher speed and also improve handling of the car while steering through a corner. The trade off to negative camber is obviously inner tyre wear.

so for an old girl with a steering box steering system here is where i'm at.

Dial in as much caster as you can achieve before you start hitting body work with your wheel/ tyre combo.. a figure of positive 4/5/6 degrees caster is the aim.

camber, now from what i have been told celica's actually run a positive 0.5 degree camber from factory specification (correct me if i'm misinformed)... but the benefits to steering/grip of running negative camber are highlighted above, the greater the camber eg: negative 1 or 2 degree the more this improves, im currently running .5 degree negative camber which i think i will leave as i don't want to be seriously wearing out front tyres at a silly rate.

Toe: now again i have been told that celica's run a negative toe in from factory specifications of 0.5 degree toe in (again correct me if i'm misinformed). I am going to use this setting (or just zero the toe) as i think this is where the majority of my issues lie as discussed above. all the inherent characteristics of toe out plus the fact that i am running an 8 inch wheel with a zero offset which has considerably increased the track which could be exacerbating the issue and multiplying the affect of toe out on the steering geometry and behaviour/feedback/characteristics etc..

I think its time to head off for a wheel alignment ASAP and tell them exactly what to dial into the steering and suspension... i think previously it was just a big guessing game on their behalf with very little understanding of my specific vehicle. it's seriously not a one rule fits all scenario when it comes this stuff. lol.....

**frr33q** · 27-05-2015, 08:35 AM

OK guys here's an update so people that may be reading this in the future can save themselves the headache and heartache of what i went through chasing my tail trying to get this sorted!!

my first bit of advise, TAKE YOU CAR TO A TRUSTED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE STEERING AND SUSPENSION WORKSHOP!! as simple as a wheel alignment sounds, it can serious affect your cars steering and handling!!

so after some recommendations from people in the know, i took my car too Jim Hunter Suspension at Blacktown. Great bunch of blokes, they took the time to listen to what i needed as a customer, and also took the time to explain steering basics to me (which by now after all the research I've done I had a good understanding of, but it was much appreciated anyways)

I explained the issues that i had been having with my steering/handling and they very much confirmed what i had already identified in the posts above. The majority of the issues with my steering came from the toe out that was dialed into the car!!

so now the car has:
Zero toe
+2 degree caster (this is all we could get before the wheels start fouling on the bottom corner lip of the guard)
-1.5 degree camber.

I was able to get this done on the weekend in time for the Classic Celica Appreciation Day Cruise on Sunday, so i got a good chance to test the changes made. Now driving out of the workshop i could instantly feel the difference in the steering.
Driving the car through the twisties though really highlighted the gains made to the steering and handling of the car!! It was like night and day to be honest.... steering compliance was bang on the money, i was able to pick lines through corners (at times carrying seriously great speeds) and the steering absolutely stayed right on track!! It gave me a lot of confidence in my cars abilities as i had full control of what my car was doing now!!

hope this helps anyone that's following along and has experienced the same issues, or anyone searching in the future.