Which motor for the RA23??

[o_man_ra23]

Mate, you ask for people's ideas and then ya go ahead and shit on them by giving neg rep. Not a good way to thank somone. Don't post if you don't want comments.

That is why i put the statement that i pointed out to you in my first post. To try and stop anything which isnt a technical comment. I asked for people's technical comments, not vague random photos of engines, or other non technical posts. There have been plenty of ideas that i disagree with which have attracted positive rep, due to the technical reasoning behind those ideas. No more non technical posts people, this is clogging up the forums.

Oman

[o_man_ra23]

Main purpose of the car will be circuit. Itll be a gift to the missus only when i complete the RA28 (could be some years of me driving). As said im looking for something close to stock for smoothness, so I really would lean against the 4AGTE. I think the 18RC really is a rediculous suggestion of mine, the car isnt in a state to re-visit the road until the interior/exterior, suspension and drivetrain see some serious repairs.

Cheers, Owen

51LII as own stated he does not want to do the conversion twice.

owen if a 3S is what you want simply put the 18RC back in (weekend job) and save your money so as the paint-interior will be done is say 2 weeks min then the car is back at your house getting the 3S installed,

i personally would go for the 1G because they are every at reasonable prices, Parts are cheap and avalable, and there is so much you could do to them for more power.

the 1JZ would be a nice conversion to but unless you want serious power you would stick to the 1G,

your purpose of this conversion (rebuild) is a gift from you to the missus, have you taken her for a drive in a 3S,1G,1JZ etc.. and asked her what she feels most comfortable with??

and then if a 3S is what you want why dont you save the money/collect part so as you can put it in the RA28 and have a 1G in the 23.

or even a 4AGTE??? 1.6L turbo still leave tyre marks nice smooth engine will snuggle into 23 easily and wont be too much power for the missus.

its your call, but it also depends on what your main purpose of the car is,

DRAG,
STREET
CIRCUT.

good luck owen

[timbosaurus]

Mate, you ask for people's ideas and then ya go ahead and shit on them by giving neg rep. Not a good way to thank somone. Don't post if you don't want comments.

It was one of the first things Owen said, so no one can say they weren't warned. I know neg rep seems rough, but justified IMHO in this situation. Remember guys... it's nothing personal!

Back to tech talk....

We all know the benifits of the 1UZ, but it's pretty clear from the start that the ongoing costs weren't suitable for this conversion.

I too like the uniqueness of the suggestion of the 2zz, but as O-man is already concerned about the budget, being the first to perform the said conversion may prove quite expensive, despite him being super-electronics-like.

do your diff and rear brakes, do your front brakes, upgrade your gearbox and driveline, strengthen parts of your chassis, fix some interior and then suddenly 2 years has passed before your very eyes and you haven't even touched the engine yet...by then the choice will be eaisier...even 3s conversions would be cracked for making affordable kits to fit them in the 23/8/40.

I really really agree with barned on this one. When $$$ dont matter, these things dont take too long. But on a tight budget, as much as no one admits when they first start, 2 years will FLY! Get the additional stuff like diff and brakes done, where the modification paths taken dont change much, first. Then when you are ready for the engine you can work out the best option then. I would imagine the sensible options in 2 years will be quite different to now.

If you can keep your car on the road with a free engine until then (like 51lli and DQIKST suggested), u'll keep smiling

[o_man_ra23]

If you can keep your car on the road with a free engine until then (like 51lli suggested), u'll keep smiling

True, but constantly taking it back off the road for things like diff upgrades (thats gonna take her out for a while), and the sandblasting/bodywork will be another long stretch off the road. I think Barned is right with his suggestion to leave it off the road and do the little things first. Still, if theres a good reason to go with another engine, or not to go with the 3S, im all ears, and this thread can provide good information for others not sure of what engine to use in a similar car (if it doesnt get post-whored to death)

Cheers, Owen

[TurboRA28]

Does anyone know the weight difference between a 3sgte and a 1ggte? Because if the car is being built for circuit then that should be a pretty big deciding factor imho

[sillycar chick]

True, but constantly taking it back off the road for things like diff upgrades (thats gonna take her out for a while), and the sandblasting/bodywork will be another long stretch off the road. I think Barned is right with his suggestion to leave it off the road and do the little things first. Still, if theres a good reason to go with another engine, or not to go with the 3S, im all ears, and this thread can provide good information for others not sure of what engine to use in a similar car (if it doesnt get post-whored to death)

Cheers, Owen

Sowwy Unkie Owen, didnt realise it was already in that sort of state, I just assumed it was still driving or close to being on the road. Maybe I should read more carefully.

It its going to be all that hard work with diffs, body anyway, maybe it should just wait for the 3S. It all really depends on what is practical in YOUR situation. It is hard to comment without a complete knowledge of your situation, and how YOU feel about it.

Therefore, if you already have the intention of doing some serious work on the car, and have a daily driver/rider, then you should just concentrate on the 3S and the 3S only. If you couldnt stand having it off the road for so long, then the 1G would have been the option, but looks like you already have it mostly planned. Besides, one benefit of the 3S over the 1G is the power to weight ratio - similar sort of power, not as much metal to lug around in the car. So if you already think you are capapble of doing the conversion, and that's what you want anyway, go for it. I dont know much about the 3S but havent heard any major reasons why not to use it.

Only you can decide what you think is the most practical for your situation. Sorry I cant be more "technical" in this thread, Im a T engine girl through and through But everything I have said above is very relevant to the entire purpose of your thread. If you are going to all that hard work then I agree doing 2 conversions over time would be a PITA. Let us know what you decided anyway, I am keen to hear/see how it all comes along.

[barned01]

actually now that you mention it sillycar chick the 3t option has been largely overlooked.
As for conversions, find a ta crossmember (i know this could be harder said than done), and you are virtually there.
A 3t can be bored out to get close to a 2 litre capacity, is renowned for it's strength (upgrade the pistons) and you can get to installing it almost as soon as you get it.
Being a t engine (and assuming they are close to how the R series engine works), they are relatively straight forward to look at and work on. plentiful parts (utilising 2t parts) are around.
not much to go wrong,
Obvious upgrade paths at points that won't break the bank in one hit, (turbos, Ignition systems, pistons...)
a nice challenge to get that magical 200rwkw with one.
Easy to work on and find information for from here like tightening torques (utilising 2t information), gaskets are still available as a full kit.
Already will have a gearbox to match therefore no custom fabricating of gearbox or engine mounts.
Alas i don't know how smooth they are as the one that has been sitting in my shed for 2 years i have never started....but it is definately an uncomplicated design.

[WDE_BDY]

I would think the 3T-GTE would be ruled out for the same reasons as the 18RG, while a good engine some would consider it "prehistoric". Not me of course, since I own a 3T-GTE AND an 18RGEU.

Callum

[barned01]

regardless of age, i would have thought getting a part for a 3t would be cheaper, not necessarily easier though, than a 3s....even the chain slippers.
most of the 'prehistoric' parts can be found in engines that are still quite in abundance at wreckers and on here.

ps. i have both also

[o_man_ra23]

regardless of age, i would have thought getting a part for a 3t would be cheaper, not necessarily easier though, than a 3s....even the chain slippers.
most of the 'prehistoric' parts can be found in engines that are still quite in abundance at wreckers and on here.

ps. i have both also

Im of the impression that the chain slippers for the 3T are a PITA to get, i know the 18RG ones are nearly unavailable, and dear as poison when you find them.. whereas a belt and idler pulley for a 3S is readily available, and about the same cost as 1 timing slipper... plus they are uber easy to replace.

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

Im of the impression that the chain slippers for the 3T are a PITA to get, i know the 18RG ones are nearly unavailable, and dear as poison when you find them.. whereas a belt and idler pulley for a 3S is readily available, and about the same cost as 1 timing slipper... plus they are uber easy to replace.

Cheers, Owen

I couldnt find the slippers for the 2T-G (which are in my hybrid) anywhere until someone on here put me onto Stuart Wilkins Motorsport. They had them all instock, but for 2 chains and a complete set of slippers set me back $500 good news is the ones that are in my engine are the original ones that lasted 30 odd years, so the new ones should at least last you another 20 years. By then, who knows where your celica engine will be!!

But that would be the most expensive parts I have ever seen for this engine.

a nice challenge to get that magical 200rwkw with one

Im aiming for it with my next hybrid engine or close to it!!

[ra23celica]

Owen,
I am running a 1GGZE in my car at the moment, and I love every second of it. Great heaps of torque down low in the rev range, a straight forward conversion with minimal mods needed, just gearbox crossmember, sump and radiator. No need for custom engine mounts, and you can leave everything south of the gearbox alone until it breaks, saving you money at the time, till it suits you to do it.
You only need a front brake upgrade, the Corona/Hilux/Pug job and you are licenced to go.
Cheers,
Mitch.

[o_man_ra23]

Thanx for the input Mitch. Diff needs doing anyways as i pulled the centre to put in the RA40. As im doing all the 5 stud, the hilux pug rona conversion isnt practical... plus its another one of those dont want to do it twice things. And, i want the uber stopping power so that the missus keeps the nose of the car in one peice... Mackay is a s-hole as far as the drivers are concerned... i think its about the highest number of accidents per capita in aus.

Cheers for the input tho... overlooked the GZE... but superchargers are less efficient and engineeringly speaking are not as good as turbos.

Owen

[TurboRA28]

I feel the T series engines compared to S is like chalk and cheese. The head design is superior on the S engine by miles. They make power so much easier, are smooth and quiet. No timing chain noise to put up with. They have piston oil squirters. The 3S has a square bore/stroke (86mm). All things in favour of the 3S.

My real world comparision was a 3T-GTE built strong and running 22psi making somewhere between 170 - 180rwkw.

Then a 3S-GTE, again built strong, on 17psi, making over 200rwkw.

This just says to me that a T series engine is always going to be under a lot more stress than an S series engine. - depending what kind of power you want of course.

Plus parts are easier to find & cheaper.. Show me a forged piston and h beam rod set for a T series engine for under $1000?

[timbosaurus]

As im doing all the 5 stud, the hilux pug rona conversion isnt practical... plus its another one of those dont want to do it twice things. And, i want the uber stopping power so that the missus keeps the nose of the car in one peice... Mackay is a s-hole as far as the drivers are concerned... i think its about the highest number of accidents per capita in aus.

Owen

Mate, I know this isn't to do with the conversion... but it might help to save some money to get the 3S sooner, and it's sorta technical

/start OT

Overly big brakes aren't gunna stop the car any quicker in the even of some jobknockey hoickin on the brakes unexpectedly in front of the missus down Mackays bustling boulevards... If anything the added unsprung weight might hurt braking under certain circumstances. Even stocko brakes will pull up fine in that circumstance. If, however, you expect the missus to be pulling up from 200+kmph repeatadly around the track, I can see you need for some Uber-brakes.

For the street though, try not to OVERestimate the need the massive anchors! They can hurt handling through rough roads and aren't always money well spent.

Having said that, if 5-stud is the desire, or availablilty or low cost of parts is sending you in another direction... go for it!

/end OT