Help- 2TGEU stuttering/backfiring on brand new Haltech

[lilcrash]

Just talked to my tuner and he can tune it as long as its not locked.

Ben Phillips at M1tuning. It's his business. Just jump ok the website and email or ring him. He is really good and honest.

[lilcrash]

ok incase they didnt actually screw something up, check your map sensor and air temp sensor is still hooked up. either would explain your symptoms.

my number is 0413533586 if you want to know what you are looking for.

[king-szeitszam]

Mate I can't thank you enough for the help. I'll be giving your tuner a ring tomorrow as it isn't locked, so he should be free to fiddle as he likes.
No map sensor fitted that I can see..hmm.

I've fixed the backfiring- for some reason the fuel pressure had spiked up 10psi, it was way too rich. Dialled it back down and now she idles nicely.
Still skipping at low throttle 2500-3000 rpm..the tacho spikes so I'm thinking that's pointing towards an ignition problem?

Will check air temp in the morning, hasn't thought of that.
All the wires are heat shrinked, so that rules that out.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time to help out.

[andrew_mx83]

Awesome reply thanks for that. DIYautotune says maximum 5mm so I think the installer had gone the max- but now that I've looked at it I agree that it's way too far. The car is going back to the shop tomorrow (hopefully) for a check over. I'll mention all the earths and the shielding when I'm there. As far as I know there's definitely no shielding on the trigger pickup leads. The same with the coil wires. What's something good to use to heat shield it?

Not heat shielding, they need electrically shielded cable. You can buy it from jaycar in 2 or 4 core, they list it as microphone cable i think. There is a steel wire mesh surrounding the conductors which, when grounded, will stop induced currents. Or something like that.
If you pull apart a stock wiring loom and look at the dizzy pickup wires you will see what i mean.


Also im very surprised it didnt run on 1mm gap, most reluctor pickups like 0.2mm-1mm gap, any more or less and they crack the sads. 5mm seems waaay too much to me.

[allencr]

Mate I can't thank you enough for the help. I'll be giving your tuner a ring tomorrow as it isn't locked, so he should be free to fiddle as he likes.

OMG!(10 characters)

[lilcrash]

With the sprint 500, I think they run an internal map sensor.

[king-szeitszam]

Yeah they run an internal map sensor, but there is no plumbing running to it- I can see the barb where you'd mount some tubing to give the pressure reading and there's nothing there.
Wondering why he hasn't bothered to run map sensor..also when I asked yesterday if he's made sure the dizzy isn't advancing he said that its not being used at all- but you need 2 references for sequential so I'm worried he's messed something up here.
Also, he said that the coils are paired together- did I hear him wrong- because I swear again when running sequential coils aren't paired, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

[RA35GT]

Might be running the engine with TPS and RPM only, usually due to the ITB's causing erratic map sensor signals at low loads. (not sure if the sprint can operate in other modes to utilise the map sensor at higher loads)

Sounds like he is running it semi sequentially, which doesn't need the sync reference signal (and only the crank with the missing tooth)
(Fires two coils at once in waste spark config, paired injectors too).

Sounds like this guy didn't really know what he was doing or was too lazy to do as asked.

[king-szeitszam]

Might be running the engine with TPS and RPM only, usually due to the ITB's causing erratic map sensor signals at low loads. (not sure if the sprint can operate in other modes to utilise the map sensor at higher loads)

Sounds like he is running it semi sequentially, which doesn't need the sync reference signal (and only the crank with the missing tooth)
(Fires two coils at once in waste spark config, paired injectors too).

Sounds like this guy didn't really know what he was doing or was too lazy to do as asked.

I've heard about the erratic air pressure readings at idle, but with the lumpy cam and apparently 'oversized' injectors it already idles pretty rough anyway, unless running a MAP sensor would make the idle dramatically worse I don't see a reason not to run it.

I agree.. it sounds like it's semi sequential- but that's not what I asked, nor what I paid for- he knows that so the only excuse would be laziness.

This is starting to get out of hand- I called him back today and told him that the engine is still stumbling on acceleration- the fuel pressure was part of the problem- but since taking a timing light out and looking at the trigger wheel I'm seeing even ignition at idle but as the RPM rises to about 3 grand it starts skipping maybe 5 or 6 degrees before going back to normal, then skipping again. It's just a half second blip but it's enough to be noticeable and extremely annoying. He's not called me back since to help rectify the problem so it looks like off to the tuners we go.

He's also tuned it lean in 1st and 2nd, his justification for the lean 1st gear was to 'help the idle', but 2nd has no reason at all to be lean. Even third is on the thin side. It means that in order to pull away without stalling I'll have to rev her to 3 grand. I know the sprint is only 16x16 mapping, but come on.

[RA35GT]

It would be hard to get a consistent tune if you were to tune with just map. Ideally if the computer allows for it you would use a combination of map and tps.
I don't know anything about the sprint though so can't say what the best setup for it would be.

Where did the trigger wheel come from and what crank sensor are you using? Sensor data sheet should tell you the recommended clearances and trigger teeth dimensions and material.

Did you lock the timing in the software when you checked the timing? (timing may just be responding to engine changes if not locked, if it is locked I'd be looking at how well the trigger wheel has been cut/made)

Mate, I'd say it's time to cut your losses and either learn to do it yourself or find a tuner that someone else has used successfully.

[king-szeitszam]

It would be hard to get a consistent tune if you were to tune with just map. Ideally if the computer allows for it you would use a combination of map and tps.
I don't know anything about the sprint though so can't say what the best setup for it would be.

Where did the trigger wheel come from and what crank sensor are you using? Sensor data sheet should tell you the recommended clearances and trigger teeth dimensions and material.

Did you lock the timing in the software when you checked the timing? (timing may just be responding to engine changes if not locked, if it is locked I'd be looking at how well the trigger wheel has been cut/made)

Mate, I'd say it's time to cut your losses and either learn to do it yourself or find a tuner that someone else has used successfully.

I'll have to investigate further on the Sprint's capabilities, I'd just assumed it was capable of running both TPS and MAP at the same time, because singularly each are quite rough methods of tuning.

The trigger wheel came from DIYautotune with a matched hall effect sensor. The data sheet says that the maximum distance for mounting is 5mm, and it's about spot on 5mm now. As I said before I tried to bring it closer (~1mm) and the car wouldn't start, NFI why.

I was told the timing was locked yes. If you believe what DIYautotune says the discs are laser cut, but I've lost all faith in them after the coils I bought from them failed, costing me $350. You'd think they'd sell a sensor with the appropriate size trigger disk- but there's no guarantees these days and I suppose as long as they make their money, they don't care.

The idea for the 'upgrade' from carby to EFI is that it'd be a set and forget thing, I was tired of tuning carbies and having them detune over time as they tend to do. I'd assumed that a professional would be able to get it up and running quickly- especially one who states they specialise in Haltechs- and leave me to learn how these things work over time. Unfortunately I was wrong about the above.

With that in mind I'd say you're right, time to bite the bullet and find a tuner who isn't all talk, or take the car off the road and spend the next month learning how to do it properly myself. I understand the basic fuel tweaks and trimming for hot and cold, but there are obviously much finer areas of adjustment and filters that I'll need to become familiar with before I take the dive and start fiddling myself. I intend to send the car to the tuner lilcrash recommended.

[Lambolica]

The Sprint 500 is capable of running Alpha-N (TPS) with Map compensation, that being said ITB's, as I'm currently learning, are a typically poor at holding a stable vacuum signal that a MAP Sensor can use.

Vacuum manifolds can be used to get a better signal, along with a vacuum dampener to smooth out the pulses.

Typically tuners seem to recommend tuning ITB's only in Alpha-N.

How is your vacuum setup from the ITB's?

Cheers
Simon

[king-szeitszam]

The Sprint 500 is capable of running Alpha-N (TPS) with Map compensation, that being said ITB's, as I'm currently learning, are a typically poor at holding a stable vacuum signal that a MAP Sensor can use.

Vacuum manifolds can be used to get a better signal, along with a vacuum dampener to smooth out the pulses.

Typically tuners seem to recommend tuning ITB's only in Alpha-N.

How is your vacuum setup from the ITB's?

Cheers
Simon

If that's the case I'll have to look into hooking up some plumbing to get the reading. As for vac sources the tb's are just barely cracked open at idle, makes for a low idle at cold and a slightly high idle when warm (only other option is an ISCV but that's more money I don't have right now).

The first option I have for taking a reading is shown in this photo of my TB's- the black rubber grommet things sitting in front of the injector bosses- there's 4:



or I can take the reading from the manifold, specifically the top of the manifold where that little nozzle is sticking out- but I'm unsure of this as that would only give a reading for one port.



Reading's should be pretty good from the first option though, that opening lies right behind the butterfly.

Other than that the thing's sealed up pretty tight.

[Lambolica]

OK so to get a vacuum for a Map you will need to pick a line from all 4 throttles, and run those lines into a vacuum plenum / Canister / log and run to your map from there if the vacuum signal is steady. Log can also feed Fuel pressure regulator & ISCV. Brakes can come of the feed into the manifold.

If the signal isn't steady a dampener may steady it out.

I'm looking into getting a better signal myself to make better use of MAP for ITB's.

[king-szeitszam]

OK so to get a vacuum for a Map you will need to pick a line from all 4 throttles, and run those lines into a vacuum plenum / Canister / log and run to your map from there if the vacuum signal is steady. Log can also feed Fuel pressure regulator & ISCV. Brakes can come of the feed into the manifold.

If the signal isn't steady a dampener may steady it out.

I'm looking into getting a better signal myself to make better use of MAP for ITB's.

Is that all the ISCV needs to work? I only read a small amount on them- I thought they just fed air in, do they require the vacuum signal to know when to open and close?
Also, if I want to run Alpha-N does that require a complete retune? I'm trying to get an idea of the cost/benefit ratio here. If I do decide to do this I'll install an ISCV and MAP setup at once, as it's sort of a two birds one stone thing.