W58 Problems (1st, 3rd, 5th won't work after shifter swap)

[LezSpaz]

Hello everyone,

I'm currently preparing for a 2JZGE conversion for my MA61 Celica Supra. So with my 2JZ that I bought, I also got a W58 with the correct bellhousing. Only problem was that it had the wrong shifter housing on it.

I wasn't able to test if the gears changed smoothly before taking it apart since it didn't come with the actual shifter, and the one out of my W58 from an RA65 wouldnt fit to the shift lever housing set.

So I took it apart and swapped the shift lever housing sets (just the bit that has the ring where the ball sits in). Also while inspecting my shifter from the W55 the bush on the inside was almost completely gone so I removed it.

After doing this, and before I bolted the housing together, I wanted to check if it shifts okay with the forks. So I put the shift lever in the slot, pushed down to 4th, and I may have tried the other gears. I can't remember simply because when I shifted it into reverse all hell broke loose - it was stuck in reverse.

I tried looking around for extra locking pins that would prevent it shifting out of reverse, except for the one on the extension housing and checked the repair manual. I only found the reverse idler gear shaft stopper. So I took off the bellhousing, bearing retainer and transmission case to get a better look of how it works, and it seemed all it did was retain the shaft in place and had nothing to do with locking the shift fork. There was nothing locking the shift fork except for the locking ball and spring held in by the plug.

I tried unbolting it, but my allen key was about to snap and I was worried I'd strip the plug. So I gave that a miss, and put the rear end of the shift lever against the transmission case end of the shift fork, and gently tapped it out with a rubber mallet. I tapped it until the shift forks lined up with each other leaving a clear space like so:

[ = ]

This is what I assume is the neutral position.

1st gear:

[=
...]
2nd gear:
....]
[=

3rd gear:

[....]
..=
4th gear:
..=
[....]
5th gear:

..=]
[
Reverse:
[
..=]

^^^ Hope that makes sense to someone... Imagine the dots as spaces. (It is relating to the shift fork to lever interface)

So once I had it back into what I think is the neutral position, I aligned the cases back, gooed it up, put in the retaining rings and bolted it all up.

Now, it wont select 1st, 3rd and 5th. Also neutral feels completely sloppy. In my other MA61 it'll naturally go back to neutral, whereas now it wanders sideways very easily (maybe because of the bush that was stuffed?).

Feel free to dish out what I've done wrong, as I work on cars as a learning experience and I plan on working a lot more on these 'yodas.

I can't seem to upload any photos using the "insert image" options nor the attachments. Does anyone know of any good free image upload sites?

[RA35GT]

Have you replaced the worn bush?

What do you mean by wont select 1st/3rd/5th? As in not move enough to engage them or is jammed?

Also, you did also change the arm that the end of shifter sits in to suit the new shifter position? (where the small white bush is) (As in you removed the rear extension housing)

Ps. with the pictures, upload them to imageshack or similar.

You need to be careful when putting the case back together that you dont knock the shift forks out of neutral.

[LezSpaz]

Thanks for the reply.

Nah, I haven't replaced the bush yet. Don't think they're available, so I may get something turned. I can't remember what the material was, I've got it at work, the green stuff you sometimes see as seals for hydraulic fittings.

It was jammed in reverse until I disassembled it and tapped it back into neutral. It just seems like it's just not moving enough to engage. (no clonk noise)

And yeah I did swap over the arm (maybe I got them mixed up since I pulled them apart relatively close to each other, but IIRC, the shift cover won't fit on it if it's the incorrect one, so I don't think that's it.

Yeah I was worried about that, but I don't think that's it, since I can shift into 2nd, 4th and reverse just fine...

What I meant with the whole [=] is this bit:



This one is in 4th gear.

[dnegative]

Feel free to dish out what I've done wrong, as I work on cars as a learning experience and I plan on working a lot more on these 'yodas.

You have fucked something up if you cannot select all 'forward' gears Its alright, we all fuck something up hahaha
Pull everything you had apart and see where you went wrong, it will be something simple or you have used a part that doesn't work.

I dont know these boxes well enough to say its part X or Y but hopefully someone will

[big_zop]

I had the same problem assembling my W58 where it got stuck in reverse when assembling. It seemed to get knocked in when putting on the rear half and with the arm in a different spot, I couldnt get it out of reverse and into any other gears so had to split it to rectify it.

To get it done properly, I had to put gearbox and the selector arm in reverse.

[LezSpaz]

I had the same problem assembling my W58 where it got stuck in reverse when assembling. It seemed to get knocked in when putting on the rear half and with the arm in a different spot, I couldnt get it out of reverse and into any other gears so had to split it to rectify it.

To get it done properly, I had to put gearbox and the selector arm in reverse.

How did you do that? When I tapped the fork back out (the rear housing was removed at this point, and I was using the select arm as a punch to pop it back into neutral.

Can anyone confirm that the [=] position is the neutral position? I mean it makes sense it would be...

[big_zop]

When you have the rear case off, have a play around with the shifter forks. There are 3 as you can see in the pic you put up above which is in gear, 3 or 4 as I cant remember which one - they all need to line up for it to be in neutral - 1 side will do 1/2, the centre one will do 3/4 and the other one will do 5/R. You will know when it goes into reverse as it will add the reverse idler gear and when you turn the input shaft, the output will turn the opposite direction. Once it is in a gear, it also wont allow any other gear to be selected.

So make sure it is in R and that the slider arm is in that one and it should make it easier to get it right.

The two bolts on the side of the rear of the box are what push the lever back into neutral and they should push back out after you push them in as they are spring loaded.

[NME308]

Yes the [=] is neutral!
As already asked did you swap the whole shifter mechanism i.e. the shaft which the socket on the end which the shifter arm engages with i.e. the bit which slides forward and backward on another shaft to do the engaging with the [=] fork selectors?

I can imagine possibly being able to only select the gears in one direction if the above shaft were the wrong length meaning the shifter lever in your hands cannot physically travel far enough in the correct direction.

There are however plenty of ways to create any given problem so hopefully you can sort it out asap!

Cheers,
Jason

[LezSpaz]

Yes the [=] is neutral!
As already asked did you swap the whole shifter mechanism i.e. the shaft which the socket on the end which the shifter arm engages with i.e. the bit which slides forward and backward on another shaft to do the engaging with the [=] fork selectors?

I can imagine possibly being able to only select the gears in one direction if the above shaft were the wrong length meaning the shifter lever in your hands cannot physically travel far enough in the correct direction.

There are however plenty of ways to create any given problem so hopefully you can sort it out asap!

Cheers,
Jason

Oh shit... The actual length of the shaft... I'll check it out and let you all know

Thanks!

EDIT: FYI I only changed the bit that bolts to the shaft...

[slidekid]

if it was a remote shift box u have to redrill & tap the whole on the selector rail 10 mm further forward

[RyleyMA61]

Yes, I just put an ex-JZA80 W58 in my MA61.

You have to use the JZA80 selector shaft but with a new hole drilled and tapped in the same location as the old MA61 shaft.

Mine would select 1,3 and 5 but wouldn't stay there.

Turns out it was the plastic gasket near the shifter, so I cut some meat out of it and all was well.

[patrickleslie]

Also while inspecting my shifter from the W55 the bush on the inside was almost completely gone so I removed it.

Also neutral feels completely sloppy.

Oh shit... The actual length of the shaft...

You have to use the MA61 selector shaft but with a new hole drilled and tapped in the same location as the old JZA80 shaft. Mine would select 1,3 and 5 but wouldn't stay there. Turns out it was the plastic gasket near the shifter, so I cut some meat out of it and all was well.

I think I'm reading all this right...Ryley you still had a shifter bushing in there though right? That is why you could select forward gears but not hold them, because the JZA80 shaft was just too short and once you changed to the MA61 shaft it was all good. The lack of bushing is why LezSpaz can not even select a gear. Aside from being the short shaft, the 'length' of the shaft is shorter again because there is no bushing to make up that extra 10mm off the shifter. That's why you can't push it forwards enough to select a gear even if it won't hold.

Do what Ryley said about the hole and shaft, and also get one of these --> BillyM Shift-Bushing Kit <--- it will fix your sloppy neutral problems and make up that extra length.

EDIT: if that is even the bush you were talking about in the first place...

[RyleyMA61]

Woah, I got that way wrong.

You have to use the JZA80 W58 shaft (ie the one that came with the gearbox)

And redrill the hole so it's in the same position as the hole on the MA61 W58 shaft. Put the two shafts side-by-side and you will see that they aren't in the same position.

So your JZA80 W58 gearbox shaft will have two holes - mount your selector bush housing bit so that it sits in the same position on the new shaft as it did on the ex-MA61 box.

Yes I still had a bushing in the selector socket.

Mine shifted into 1,3 and 5 but didn't hold because the gasket from the MA61 W58 didn't leave enough room with the new gearbox (JZA80 W58 selector shaft housing has roller bearings, and therefore is a greater outside diameter).

With the selector socket in place (in the new "MA61 position" tapped hole) there isn't enough clearance between the bottom of the bushing and the top of the selector shaft housing for the rubber gasket- providing enough resistance to spring the gearstick out of gear.

Once I trimmed the gasket, all was well.

[patrickleslie]

Woah, I got that way wrong.

in that case, ignore pretty much everything I said hehe

get one of these --> BillyM Shift-Bushing Kit <--- it will fix your sloppy neutral problems

that's probably the only relevant bit lol