Ignition issue with 18r

[MorgzMods]

Good afternoon all,
As the title states It seems there are two condensers on my ignition system - one on the dizzy which was replaced with the rotor, cap and points probably 10k ago.
And apparently this little rust bucket thing hanging of the wire that is leading to my ignition coil is also a condenser.

Through my limited knowledge, the second condenser is to stop really high current flowing either way? This is question not a statement.

It doesn't seem difficult to replace but I don't know what specifically to replace it with - if I were to ask for a condenser I'm sure I'd need to know more specific details for it.

The reasoning behind all of this is that the engine won't run nicely, it's definitely getting fuel and with relatively new points, rotor, cap and brand new plugs and msd blaster coil (with new ballast resistor) I don't know what else it could be.
The engine will run nicely for about 30 seconds if the points are cleaned up but then it cuts, won't run again until the points are cleaned again.

Please hit me up with any/all suggestions!

[Dazza]

I think it is the ballast resistor that you need. It goes between your power from ignition switch and coil + It is there to reduce voltage to the coil to around 9 volts. You should have battery voltage to the coil while the starter motor is winding over and when you let the key turn back to the run position the power should go to the ballast resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil so it does not overheat. If you run battery voltage to the coil it will get hot and start to break down until it cools down.

[lexsmaz]

Couple of things how are you cleaning the points ?? & do you then wipe them down with petrol or such & a very clean dry rag ..

It wont have 2 condensors, the one on the Dizzy is the condensor & is very important for ignition function the second item usually mounted on or near the coil & will be wired to the positive side of the coil is a noise suppressor for the radio & like & not important for car running, i would be double checking the condensor you replaced was the correct one & either way replace it again & replace the points too & has been said make sure the ballast resistor is wired correctly & has voltage drop when the car is running, the coil you are Now running could be too much for your condensor to handle ?? & hence burning out the points ..

I just used to use the good old Bosch ballast style coils in the past on my old cars & never let me down ..

[MorgzMods]

I think it is the ballast resistor that you need. It goes between your power from ignition switch and coil + It is there to reduce voltage to the coil to around 9 volts. You should have battery voltage to the coil while the starter motor is winding over and when you let the key turn back to the run position the power should go to the ballast resistor to reduce the voltage to the coil so it does not overheat. If you run battery voltage to the coil it will get hot and start to break down until it cools down.

Thanks Dazza, a brand new ballast resistor was installed with the MSD Coil - it was putting out between 5.8 and 6.1ish volts post resistor.There was a cable connected to the positive of the coil, but when the new one was installed it made no difference (didn't cause more issues and didn't start any easier) with it attached. So it should of been alright.

Couple of things how are you cleaning the points ?? & do you then wipe them down with petrol or such & a very clean dry rag ..

It wont have 2 condensors, the one on the Dizzy is the condensor & is very important for ignition function the second item usually mounted on or near the coil & will be wired to the positive side of the coil is a noise suppressor for the radio & like & not important for car running, i would be double checking the condensor you replaced was the correct one & either way replace it again & replace the points too & has been said make sure the ballast resistor is wired correctly & has voltage drop when the car is running, the coil you are Now running could be too much for your condensor to handle ?? & hence burning out the points ..

I just used to use the good old Bosch ballast style coils in the past on my old cars & never let me down ..

The points were cleaned with pretty fine sand paper and then a clean cloth was see-sawed between the points to get rid of anything left behind.
Cheers for clearing up the noise suppressor It was shot to shit but with what you said it definitely shouldn't make much of an issue.
I ended up with a free tow to the local auto electrician. The car's been there three working days now and he said this afternoon that he pretty much has no idea.
He's checked the coil itself, the resistor and wiring and it all seems to be okay, he did say I needed new points so I'm assuming he's replaced those already.

Any other ideas? It gets me worried when an auto electrician is stumped - he isn't a young gun either.

[lexsmaz]

Hi,

As i mentioned i would personally be putting just a Normal ballasted Coil & replacing the condensor again & double checking its the correct condensor for the car ..

The new coil that you have fitted has probably lower resistance through the primary circuit which means more current flow through the points which is not a good thing ( can burn them out ) & also probably has more windings in the secondary side so when the spark fires it also collapses the field within the coil & produces a bigger spark across the points which the condensor cant cope with & also not a good thing ( will burn the points out ) .. So i would just fit a good quality standard style coil etc & see how it all goes from there ..

In essence the spark plugs will only use what voltage it needs to jump the gap so high output coils are not really required in your cicumstances on this motor unless you are running Big spark plug gaps, very weak mixtures, etc etc & you know for sure that you are suffering from poor spark at high RPM, ( Breaking down ) ..

[MorgzMods]

I'll replace the coils, fit the old coil and ballast resistor to see if that helps at all.

The car's current at a local auto electrician and he's still stumped. The car starts and runs nicely for a minute or so, then splutters and dies then it wont start - until it cools down. I noticed the coil was getting crazy hot and he mentioned that it did seem to be pretty warm whereas the old one didn't. If he has a GT40/R coil I'll get him to try that one.

If there's anything else I should check out please let me know!

[lexsmaz]

Strange you say the Electrician is stumped & yet he says to you the coil gets hot !! surely he would try another one ?? Time to change Auto electricians if the problem still persists ..

As you say, 1 minute of running & then the coil is Hot is not a good sign, make sure you replace the condensor too as it has probably been shagged by the Extra load that has been put through it ..

Regards ..

Rob ..

[MorgzMods]

Hahaha thanks Rob - I'll keep it in mind.
After having a look online it seems the MSD's don't like being mounted horizontally at all. So I think I'll grab a new condenser (the old one wasn't exactly the right part), leads (for shits and gigs) and mount the coil vertically. If that makes a difference but it still cuts out maybe I'll throw a GT40R on? He mentioned he might have a new jap-made one.

You aren't planning a trip up to Brisbane any time within the next 24 hours are ya?

[lexsmaz]

Depending on how hot the coil has got in the past it might have broken down the insulation on the windings inside it ?? .. I would personally just fit a good old Bosch coil, will save you a lot of hassles i feel in the long run & unlesss you are running some radical motor the fancy coil is not required ..

If you were local i would be happy to help, but Brisbane is just that little bit to far ..

Regards ..

Rob ..

[DX20VT]

As an Auto Electrian myself I would hope that your auto electrian has at least measured coil current in the system.
Most the the MSD types coils are for electronic ignition only and have way too little resistance for a points ignition system.

[MorgzMods]

He said he'd checked the coil, but being critical that could just mean that it's putting power to the dizzy - not the current through it. Will update after testing a GT40R coil.

[MorgzMods]

Alright finally got down to see him and it now runs.
He replaced the condenser and it started, runs and drives. Which is good news. Bad news is it seems to stutter randomly and backfire - before it used to pop but now it'll backfire occassionally. Not a massive issue. Driving in general seems to be smoother.

The condenser he used wasn't the correct one for the 18rc engine (neither was the previously fitted one)

Ended up costing me $250 but I ended up with a dizzy from an ra60 of sorts for nothing.

What's the best bet? Should I wait until this thing dies again and just replace everything correctly?

[lexsmaz]

Dont ever go back there again, in my eyes a lot of money for a pretty easy fix if you are old school & skilled in the trade ..

If you want to be stranded again just keep driving it till it dies ..

If it was me i would be changing to a correct standard style coil & correct condensor for the car Now & change the points again & all going well it should be good .. Cant remember if you had previously changed the plug leads but if they are old change them too ..

Regards ..

Rob ..

[Dazza]

For $250 you could have converted it to electronic ignition, which would get rid of your points and condenser alltogether so you never have to touch it again.