turbo choice to suit this motor....

[StuC]

Hey all, im about to buy another starlet gt. This one has a fully built/forged 5e with a TD04L fitted (i believe its the 19T model). Makes just shy of 170kw at the treads on 18.5psi.
Graph shown below.....



Looking at this graph the turbo is clearly running out of puff around the 4.5k mark and the motor isn't revving out to redline that well.
Now, i understand the 5e has a rather long stroke compared to that of the 4e so wont rev as well without some cam work however is the turbo stopping this from at least making power through to the top? If i were to fit my GT2560rs (.63 rear) would i be right in thinking it would at least make power to rev limit (Approx 6200rpm) and then give me headroom for when i fit cams?
The curve will obviously shift a little to the right due to the size difference but in theory i should be able to make the same power with less boost and give myself a higher ceiling. Right?
Cams and a better ECU would be on the cards in the future too to get that rev limit dragged out to somewhere around 7.2k and a higher res map.

Cheers guys/gurus.

Stu


Cheers,
Stu

[jonathan yee]

seeing as a gt2560 held 16psi and felt fine through to redline on my last 3sgte, it should be more than fine on a 1.5.

[StuC]

Haha true. Its efficiency range is between 1-2 bar so know it wont run out of puff, more the fact that im hoping it will give a broader band without losing a stack of bottom end too. Area under the graph and all...I imagine it will have a more linear curve with something like that on it

[jonathan yee]

dunno bout that turbo, but i wonder how much the cams are suffocating it? maybe fit cam first and see if that allows it to breathe and be able to do something with the boost?

[trdee]

Need to know the whole story here, does the car have a decent free flowing exhaust? At those kinds of power figures you would want at minimum a 2.5" but preferably a 3" exhaust with as little restriction as possible if you don't want it choking up top.

Secondly, the cams probably arent helping things as jonathan yee says, but without other engines to compare to I have nfi... I dont know what 5Es normally make with such a setup, maybe check on the starlet forums and see if you can find yourself a baseline to compare from.

Thirdly, yes that probably is the turbo running out of puff, TD04s are blowing hot air past 12psi and even on 4As you struggle to get much more than 170KW at the wheels out of them... the GT2560RS should be better, especially with the 0.63 housing. Another thing you can do is fit an external gate if it doesn't already have one.

The easiest thing to change of all the above is the turbo, so try that first and go from there

[StuC]

Cheers guys. The TD04L has a 2.5" exhaust and dump. My 2560 setup has a 3" so could easily kill 2 birds with one stone on that. I also have an adjustable cam gear to play with to see what happens. I just read that the inlets can be a restriction around these levels so again, something else to look out down the track. Outright power wont be my goal but getting power all the way to a usable and reliable redline without having a light-switch turbo would be nice.

Might look at seeing what hybrid turbo can be whacked together using Subi/Mitsu parts bin specials. Im led to believe this is the biggest but could be wrong - TD04HL-19T is the mother of stock Subi turbos but im sure the Mitsu TD05s were a little bigger

[e30-323ti]

Have a look at SHRED on facebook, they had a Starlet with a 1.3 (4E-FTE) putting down 230kw using a new GTX2863R

[StuC]

Thanks man, but that's out of the question for me. I already have the GT, manifold, dump, exhaust sitting there so would be no cost except a retune (would do with a new ECU anyway).
Apparently the VF series turbos bolt straight up and use the same dump, well the single scroll ones do anyway. There's a stack of options there and easy to come by too. Something like the VF24, VF30 or VF34 would definitely get it there. They're about the same size as a T28.

I think that's given me enough choices to play with.....

[jfallen]

Borg Waner EFR6758 hands down!

link

Can't go wrong for $1500
JA

[trdee]

are the borg warners actually available now?

[StuC]

BW Looks the goods but is more than i want to spend when i have something on-hand already. That built-in BOV is weird but a pretty decent idea.BW would involve new dump and lines etc. My aim is to keep changing things like that down - however having said that i guess the 2.5" dump on the TD is probably a little restrictive anyway. When its in my hands and has my gearbox in it i'll take it for a spin and see how much it stops pulling in the real world and make the decision whether or not to swap over the garrett -I think the answer will be yes.

Another thing for down the track would be to get a real ECU in it. Its running an E-manage and i don't want to swap my Microtech from the other Starlet into it. If im going to that trouble i'll get something with much better resolution and wizz-bang bits like an Adaptronic. That and i still want to keep some good bits on the other one so i can sell it off as a carf with some good bits and some potential.

[woggin]

hop on the starlet forums(austarletclub.com), Paul just made 230fwkw at 32psi odd, plenty of info on making big power, you can check out his build thread!

[StuC]

Which Paul? Im actually buying Paul's (Harold88s) built 5e EP82, hence the question.