Opinions on 4AGTE combo

[ThePotatoSmasher]

Hi I'm recently new to these forums and I joined because I'm looking for some help with a 4AGE Turbo setup that I'm planning. So hopefully there are some experienced guys on here that have some knowledge to be shared. I'll post all the details below that I've got worked out currently, I am mainly looking for any problems I might face with the whole setup. Any comments or opinions greatly appreciated as I am still learning as I go along.

Many Thanks.

Bottom End
Block: Factory 2nd Gen. 4AGE
Bore and Stroke: 81.00x77.00mm
Capacity: 1.6L
Crank: OEM
Rods: 4AGZE
Main Stud Kit: ARP (P/N: 203-5403)
Oil Pump: Toga HV (P/N: OPTO18-HV)
Oil Pump Drive: OEM
Welsh Plugs: OEM
Bearings: OEM
Conrod Bearings: OEM
Pistons: 4AGZE
Rings: 4AGZE

Top End
Head: OEM
Head Studs: ARP (P/N: 203-4203 )
Head Gaskets: OEM
Inlet Manifold: OEM
Throttle Body: OEM
Injectors: 7MGTE
Air Filter: SCA Pod

Valvetrain
Cams: HKS Duration 256, 8mm Lift (P/N Intake: 2202-RT093, P/N Exhaust: 2202-RT094)
Cam Gears: HKS Adjustable Cam Gears (P/N: 22004-AT001)
Timing Belt: HKS (P/N: 24999-AT009 )
Valves Intake: OEM
Valves Exhaust: OEM
Valves Springs: OEM

Induction
Exhaust Manifold: Cast Iron turbo manifold T25 flange
Turbo: Garrett GT2871 (P/N: 471171-9)
Intercooler: CX Racing Front Mount, Core 18”x12”x3” (P/N: IC0006-30)
Wastegate: Turbosmart Comp-Gate 40 (P/N: TS-0505-1005)
Fuel Pressure Regulator: Turbosmart FPR-800 (P/N: TS-0401-1001)
BOV: Turbosmart Supersonic (P/N: TS-0205-1300)
Boost Controller: Turbosmart e-Boost2 (P/N: TS-0301-1011)

Ignition
Distributor: OEM
Module: MSD 6AL-2 Ignition Control (P/N: 121-6421)
Tach. Adaptor: MSD (P/N: 121-8910)
Leads: MSD
Coil: MSD Blaster 2 (P/N: 121-8202)
Sparkplugs: NGK

Ancillaries
ECU: Megasquirt
Harmonic Balancer: OEM
Sump: OEM modified for Turbo drain hose
Oil Filter: OEM
Oil: Penrite
Starter: OEM
Rocker Covers: OEM
Water Pump: OEM

[fixeruperer]

all should be fine with that. ive just ran 4age oil pumps and never had a problem with them. i use ae101 pumps.

make sure you mount the oil drain as high in the sump as possible and have a straight as you can return line (13mm internal diameter minimum)
i cant comment on megasquirt, ive never ran one or used one. make sure your tuner can tune them. can the megasquirt run all the msd ignition ?

youve gone to all the effort with all them parts, you may as well get a nice manifold, those cast ones are average.

what do you want from the motor ? basic 4agte's can make good numbers.

[ThePotatoSmasher]

all should be fine with that. ive just ran 4age oil pumps and never had a problem with them. i use ae101 pumps.

make sure you mount the oil drain as high in the sump as possible and have a straight as you can return line (13mm internal diameter minimum)
i cant comment on megasquirt, ive never ran one or used one. make sure your tuner can tune them. can the megasquirt run all the msd ignition ?

youve gone to all the effort with all them parts, you may as well get a nice manifold, those cast ones are average.

what do you want from the motor ? basic 4agte's can make good numbers.

Apparently the cast ones are better because they have less chance of cracking. I don't know how much truth to that there is though. I was to run low boost for on the street, but still have control to turn it up for any track use. I've heard stock GZE internals can handle over 500whp so I don't think I'll have any problem with breaking stuff. Max boost I'd ever consider running would be 20psi. After that I don't know how long before the stock gearbox gives up.

[ThePotatoSmasher]

all should be fine with that. ive just ran 4age oil pumps and never had a problem with them. i use ae101 pumps.

make sure you mount the oil drain as high in the sump as possible and have a straight as you can return line (13mm internal diameter minimum)
i cant comment on megasquirt, ive never ran one or used one. make sure your tuner can tune them. can the megasquirt run all the msd ignition ?

youve gone to all the effort with all them parts, you may as well get a nice manifold, those cast ones are average.

what do you want from the motor ? basic 4agte's can make good numbers.

Apparently the cast ones are better because they have less chance of cracking. I don't know how much truth to that there is though. I was to run low boost for on the street, but still have control to turn it up for any track use. I've heard stock GZE internals can handle over 500whp so I don't think I'll have any problem with breaking stuff. Max boost I'd ever consider running would be 20psi. After that I don't know how long before the stock gearbox gives up. Megasquirt ECU's are a stand-alone ecu and was recommended on another forums along with the MSD ignition. I plan to contact the manufacturer to make sure that side will all work.

[ThePotatoSmasher]

Apologies for the double post, the second one contains all of it

[fixeruperer]

ive never cracked or seen a well built steampipe manifold crack before. those cast ones are just junk.

i know a few tuners that only tune certain ecu's, so maybe just call your tuner or ones in your area, to see if they tune megasquirt's, they may even know what ignition systems work with it.

i dunno about 500+whp. around 400-500 flywheel hp is a safe zone on a good tune.

40mm may be a little big on the gate, but youd have to talk to some turbo heads.

what about finding GZE or 100kw block with oil squirters ?.

haha stock gearbox in what ?

[SHEPPO3930]

I've heard conflicting reports on the cast "HKS copy" turbo manifolds. Some say they are ok, others say they are absolute rubbish. But i've not seen anyone do a before & after, cast v's steam pipe w/ merge collector. If someone has i'd be keen to see the results.

I picked one up a cast manifold on ebay, it was cheap and i've used it to set up my car (to knock up the dump pipe, intercooler piping, oil/water lines, check clearances, etc). My only criticism is the way the gasses from cyl 1 & 4 collide into each other then turn up to go into the turbo. Apart from that the cast manifold looks as good, if not better, than most OEM turbo manifolds and I think if HKS designed it, it can't be too bad. It's most definately the best bang for buck manifold and would be great for someone going for a low boost/power, budget turbo install.

However, that said i'm going to knock up a steam pipe manifold (with the same flange set up as the cast one) to replace it once the motor is up and running as i do believe a tube style manifold with a well designed merge collector will be benificial to turbo spool up and top end power.

[ThePotatoSmasher]

ive never cracked or seen a well built steampipe manifold crack before. those cast ones are just junk.

i know a few tuners that only tune certain ecu's, so maybe just call your tuner or ones in your area, to see if they tune megasquirt's, they may even know what ignition systems work with it.

i dunno about 500+whp. around 400-500 flywheel hp is a safe zone on a good tune.

40mm may be a little big on the gate, but youd have to talk to some turbo heads.

what about finding GZE or 100kw block with oil squirters ?.

haha stock gearbox in what ?

The example I saw was not a street car, it was a corolla on a serious race tune. Not at all street worthy.

The only thing is 4AGZE engines aren't as available as a regular 4AGE. The 4AGZE came with oil squirter's I believe making it better for boosted applications, but just sourcing a used one for a reasonable price isn't easy. Gearbox is from a corolla, I don't know how much people have put through them.

[SHEPPO3930]

why not use a small port 4age, aren't they fitted with oil squirters? otherwise use a 20v silvertop. turbo 20v's make great power and have the same bottom end (excluding pistons) as a late mdl 4agze.

[trdee]

Faark, so much misinformation in this thread. Let me start by replying to the first post

Bottom End
Block: Factory 2nd Gen. 4AGE You want the smallport or later block (GE/GZE doesnt matter, the blocks are identical). 2nd gen 4AGE (bigport redtop) does not have oil squirters. This goes for the AW11 4AGZE also, as it is based off the bigport redtop block.
Bore and Stroke: 81.00x77.00mm
Capacity: 1.6L
Crank: OEM
Rods: 4AGZE
Main Stud Kit: ARP (P/N: 203-5403)
Oil Pump: Toga HV (P/N: OPTO18-HV) If you want, but there is a thread on 4AG oil pumps in the tech section already where someone pulled apart the toga pump and found it was just an Aisin (toyota) pump anyway...
Oil Pump Drive: OEM
Welsh Plugs: OEM
Bearings: OEM
Conrod Bearings: OEM Only go these if the crank doesnt need machining, and if you do go these, make sure you get the right size to suit each bearing. The size will be marked on the crank caps. Otherwise go some ACL/clevite/etc oversize bearings and get the crank machined to suit
Pistons: 4AGZE Afaik toyota only sells these in 0.5mm oversize, so bear that in mind, I would recommend getting the 8.9:1 ones out of the AE101GZE. They have more compression (and will still be fine for 20psi, so no need to go 8:1), and are ceramic coated. The earlier 8:1 ones are not.
Rings: 4AGZE

Top End
Head: OEM
Head Studs: ARP (P/N: 203-4203 )
Head Gaskets: OEM
Inlet Manifold: OEM
Throttle Body: OEM
Injectors: 7MGTE You will be limited to ~17/18psi and 180kw at the wheels with these, maybe 200 with a fuel pressure reg and pushing the injectors close to max duty cycle. bear this in mind, at 20psi i would rather get some 550cc injectors for extra headroom
Air Filter: SCA Pod

Valvetrain
Cams: HKS Duration 256, 8mm Lift (P/N Intake: 2202-RT093, P/N Exhaust: 2202-RT094) These should be ok, otherwise some kelford turbo cams. If 16v head you might want to consider going oversize valves
Cam Gears: HKS Adjustable Cam Gears (P/N: 22004-AT001)
Timing Belt: HKS (P/N: 24999-AT009 )
Valves Intake: OEM
Valves Exhaust: OEM
Valves Springs: OEM Get uprated springs to make sure you dont get valve float at big boost. Supertech/toda/etc

Induction
Exhaust Manifold: Cast Iron turbo manifold T25 flange These can be ok... a steampipe manifold with equal length runners and a good merge etc will be better though. More power, less lag. And no unexpected fitment issues if you have one custom made to suit your setup. Depends how tight your budget is I guess
Turbo: Garrett GT2871 (P/N: 471171-9) This will support your goals, good size, efficiency starts to drop off after 17psi... Expect full boost at 4000-4500rpm
Intercooler: CX Racing Front Mount, Core 18”x12”x3” (P/N: IC0006-30)
Wastegate: Turbosmart Comp-Gate 40 (P/N: TS-0505-1005) 40mm is fine, 38mm is also fine. Make sure you dont get a knockoff. Pay the extra for a brand name one or you will regret it sooner or later
Fuel Pressure Regulator: Turbosmart FPR-800 (P/N: TS-0401-1001)
BOV: Turbosmart Supersonic (P/N: TS-0205-1300)
Boost Controller: Turbosmart e-Boost2 (P/N: TS-0301-1011)

Ignition
Distributor: OEM
Module: MSD 6AL-2 Ignition Control (P/N: 121-6421)
Tach. Adaptor: MSD (P/N: 121-8910)
Leads: MSD
Coil: MSD Blaster 2 (P/N: 121-8202)
Sparkplugs: NGK Stock gze spec plugs were fine on mine up to 20psi. NGK BKR6E-11
Do you need a separate ignition module? You arent running stupid boost or revs. A decent ecu will be able to take care of all of that with some bosch coilpacks or 1ZZ COPS etc.

Ancillaries
ECU: Megasquirt If you say so.... talk to your tuner but for something like this I would rather a haltech/vipec/adaptronic etc. Something more mainstream, with local support, good features and GOOD TUNERS
Harmonic Balancer: OEM
Sump: OEM modified for Turbo drain hose
Oil Filter: OEM
Oil: Penrite
Starter: OEM
Rocker Covers: OEM
Water Pump: OEM

[ThePotatoSmasher]

Yeah I'll go with the small port, any idea's if the 4AGE and GZE blocks are the same?

[ThePotatoSmasher]

Thank you so much trdee, it can be hard to find information on the block etc to find out what is the same and what isn't. I really appreciate you going over the whole combo for me and it's answered a lot of questions

[fixeruperer]

hahaha yup trdee knows his stuff !!.

if youre into under powered, unsafe and unreliable cars haha.

more confidence than ability thats fo sho.

i wish you both luck in your endeavours.

[trdee]

hahaha yup trdee knows his stuff !!.

if youre into under powered, unsafe and unreliable cars haha.

more confidence than ability thats fo sho.

i wish you both luck in your endeavours.

Ummmm.... ok then?

Potatosmasher, everything you need to know about the 4AG can be found in the two links below.
http://forum.twincam.org.au/topic/25...-4ag-info-hub/
http://forum.twincam.org.au/topic/43...modifications/

[oldeskewltoy]

I am mainly looking for any problems I might face with the whole setup. Any comments or opinions greatly appreciated as I am still learning as I go along.

Many Thanks.

Bottom End
Block: Factory 2nd Gen. 4AGE
Bore and Stroke: 81.00x77.00mm
Capacity: 1.6L
Crank: OEM
Rods: 4AGZE WHICH 4AGZE rods?
Main Stud Kit: ARP (P/N: 203-5403)
Oil Pump: Toga HV (P/N: OPTO18-HV)
Oil Pump Drive: OEM
Welsh Plugs: OEM
Bearings: OEM
Conrod Bearings: OEM
Pistons: 4AGZE WHICH 4AGZE pistons?
Rings: 4AGZE

Top End
Head: OEM
Head Studs: ARP (P/N: 203-4203 )
Head Gaskets: OEM
Inlet Manifold: OEM
Throttle Body: OEM
Injectors: 7MGTE
Air Filter: SCA Pod

Valvetrain
Cams: HKS Duration 256, 8mm Lift (P/N Intake: 2202-RT093, P/N Exhaust: 2202-RT094)
Cam Gears: HKS Adjustable Cam Gears (P/N: 22004-AT001)
Timing Belt: HKS (P/N: 24999-AT009 )
Valves Intake: OEM
Valves Exhaust: OEM
Valves Springs: OEM

Induction
Exhaust Manifold: Cast Iron turbo manifold T25 flange
Turbo: Garrett GT2871 (P/N: 471171-9)
Intercooler: CX Racing Front Mount, Core 18”x12”x3” (P/N: IC0006-30)
Wastegate: Turbosmart Comp-Gate 40 (P/N: TS-0505-1005)
Fuel Pressure Regulator: Turbosmart FPR-800 (P/N: TS-0401-1001)
BOV: Turbosmart Supersonic (P/N: TS-0205-1300)
Boost Controller: Turbosmart e-Boost2 (P/N: TS-0301-1011)

Ignition
Distributor: OEM
Module: MSD 6AL-2 Ignition Control (P/N: 121-6421)
Tach. Adaptor: MSD (P/N: 121-8910)
Leads: MSD
Coil: MSD Blaster 2 (P/N: 121-8202)
Sparkplugs: NGK

Ancillaries
ECU: Megasquirt
Harmonic Balancer: OEM
Sump: OEM modified for Turbo drain hose
Oil Filter: OEM
Oil: Penrite
Starter: OEM
Rocker Covers: OEM
Water Pump: OEM

I'd recommend the later version of the rods and pistons. The rods... you are saving 15+ grams of mass... the pistons having higher compression allows you a bit more freedom with combustion chamber shape(removing material from the chamber to allow a superior burn)


You are NOT going to be making 500hp without SERIOUS headwork. At the BARE minimum you will need a careful deshrouding, and reworking of the exhaust ports. I'd recommend different cams too (more lift), I'd also recommend O/S valve as well