1ggte conversion, no spark.

[jonnyincognito]

Greetings,

I'm attempting to put a 1ggte into my ra23. I've already sourced most of the parts I need with help from friends in Australia, and have fitted the 1ggte to the engine bay a number of times...so everything lines up. Now onto the hard part. Electrical documentation on this conversion isn't easy to come by, and what is out there tends to be a bit over my head. Also, half cuts aren't available here in the U.S., so I don't have much to go by for comparison. What I do have is the engine and most of the harness and engine bay equipment. Everything i need appears to be there. I am attempting to get the engine running outside of the car first, so that I can sort out all the bits and pieces and what everything is supposed to do before I try to wire it up to the Celica.

Currently the engine is bolted down to a pallet. There are no dash components, but I believe everything else I need is there. If I hook it up to a battery the ECU seems to be getting power at the pin marked BATT as would be expected. If I wire in power to the pin marked IGSW that would run to the ignition switch it powers up the rest of the ECU and many of the other posts put out various voltages. I assume this would be the same as turning the key to the on position, correct? That's what it reads like in the cryptic wiring diagram at least! Next, I figured out the wiring for the 'start' position on the key which was the STA post I believe. If I supply power to this, it triggers the relay for the starter and the engine cranks.

I thought I was making great headway figuring this much out! Now to my first problem. I pulled a plug and grounded it to the engine, hit the STA wire to crank and see if I had spark. Nothing. I pulled another plug just to double check, still nothing. I traced the four wires coming out of the bottom of the distributor back to the ECU. I believe one is for the tach, one is for ground, and the other two are power? Not sure on those. No voltage on any of these. I believe I also attempted to see if there was voltage at the igniter but can't remember what I found. Can anyone give me some advice on what I'm missing? Is there a switch or relay that needs to be triggered before the ignition will provide spark? Once I have spark I'm pretty certain I can figure out the rest from what I've found on the internet...I hope at least!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[wilbo666]

Do you have the part number for the engine ECU you are using?

Also the wiring diagrams you are working off? i.e. what car is the 1ggte from?

This info will help us help you

Cheers
Wilbo

[jonnyincognito]

Alright, let's see. The wiring diagram I'm going by seems to be the standard one out there. It states EFI 1ggte (Late Model) across the top, and was listed as gen3. It looks like the others Ive seen on the net, and I picked it up with a large collection of other information on the 1G motors. It even came with a shop manual, but only the 1GGE manual is in English, hah! The part number for the ECU isn't in the best of shape and only 1ggte and a few numbers and M/T are able to be read, but it came with the engine, I didn't source them separately. I assume it came from the same car. From what I can see, when pulled all connectors were disconnected and only in a few places have wires actually been cut. I have perhaps six or seven cut wires, everything else ends in a connector. I *think* everything that I need should be there apart from fuel tank and pumps. They even removed the ID tag from the car and shipped it with the engine. So here's the specs from the tag:

Model: E-GA70H-BLMVZ
Engine: 1G-GTEU 1988CC
FRAME NO. GA70-0057370

Heck, it's even got the trim, color, trans and plant info, but I'm guessing that's not required. I can get pics of the plugs if it will help. Is there a method to determine if the ignition system is working that doesn't result in my getting a nasty shock or blowing out my multimeter?

[wilbo666]

The normal reasons that the engine ECU won't put out spark are
-The engine ECU doesn't think the engine is cranking / running (check the dizzy / engine positioning wiring / circuits)
-There is an issue with the ignition system / wiring
-The engine ECU isn't powered correctly
-The engine ECU is faulty


I'm pretty sure you aren't powering the engine ECU correctly (I don' think you have powered the engine ECU +B pins!)

You need to make sure the following engine ECU pins are powered as follows
BATT: +12V (Constant / all the time)
IGSW: +12V when you want the engine to run
+B & +B1: +12V when you want the engine to run (NOTE: this is NOT how these pins should be wired when you wire the engine up into the car! These pins should usually get +12V power that is switched by the Main EFI Relay whihc is triggered by the engine ECU M-REL output pin. See this guide http://wilbo666.pbworks.com/w/page/4...CV%29%20Wiring)
E01, E02, E11, E1: Corrected to ground / battery negative.


The engine should start without the STA and NG/W engine ECU pins connected - it might just take a few extra cranks, but it sounds like you are supplying these with +12V when cranking which is what should normally happen so that's fine

Cheers
Wilbo

[thechuckster]

I traced the four wires coming out of the bottom of the distributor back to the ECU. I believe one is for the tach, one is for ground, and the other two are power? Not sure on those. No voltage on any of these.

they are just from the VR sensors in the Dizzi - the tacho output (to dash) comes from the ignitor not the dizzi.

I think there's a few gen3 diagrams linked to in the wiring and pin outs thread
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=809

[dumbass]

i dont know y so many people think there is 12v power on toyota dizzys
ive had afew professional auto eelctricians ring me and ask this question
i wonder how many ecus have been fkt by people putting 12vs down this wire

hook up check engine light
if this light turns on then yr ecu is powered ok i guess
spray fuel down throtttle body to see if its fuel issue

and if u r playing with things and cranking for a long time u get more upset
so i normally remove dizzy (make sure u know how to fit in correctly)
and i spin dizzy instead of cranking motor as this makes it easier to test things
rather than cranking and getting funnings signals due to starter draining current

doesnt sound like u know how to diagnose the ignitor or dizzy properly so becareful when playing with
the dizzy or ignitor wires
maybe learn how the setup works before u go testing


50% of guys hook up the fuel hoses round the wrong way
trust me this is true hehhe

if u have some ignitor isues or spark issues it wont fire the injectors
thats y i test with spraying flammable stuff down throttlebody

[jonnyincognito]

Wilbo: I vaguely recalled reading somewhere about the B pins needing power, but didn't want to go supplying 12v randomly without confirmation from someone more educated on these engines than myself! I'll check to see what the status is on the EFi relay and if there is any power on those wires and go from there. I have only connected the battery leads to the battery, and put in two switches where the ignition would normally be. One is for the on position, the other for the start. I'd prefer not to run power directly to anything, and with the loom nearly complete I assume I won't have to. I'll probably have more questions after I get to poking around in it again this week. Speaking of which, what do you mean by E01, E02, E11, E1? Are those pins or connectors? I don't have the wiring diagram in front of me...so if it will be plainly obvious when I get into the garage ignore the question!

Sadly, I don't have a stock of known good parts so I can't just swap them out and test. I do have another ECU, but the plugs are yellow, and not gray...although the pinout is the same. I attempted to find an igniter to match at the wreckers, and while all the igniters from the 80s appear the same, the connectors were all different. I wasn't able to find a Supra that had an igniter still in the engine bay though, so maybe there's still hope!

The link you added looks like some of the docs I have, and I'll probably have to dig into them if the easier avenues don't pan out. Dammit, I didn't expect I'd have to go LEARNING stuff when I started this conversion!

Thanks for the info!

Thechuckster: Ah, ok. One of the pins the wires ran to on the ECU was something along the lines of OTAC or something, so I just made an assumption That's why I come here to ask!

[thechuckster]

E01, E02, E11, E1 are all pins on the ECU plugs. I'll see if I can find the 1G diagrams for you - i used to have some on my old Mac.



edit: no luck yet with my files but this link should help as they seem to link to the same data that I had
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tec...-diagrams.html

[jonnyincognito]

Those diagrams in that link look exactly like what I'm using, although mine has (late model) in the upper left corner after the 1ggte. Other than that I don't see anything different though, even down to the same spots being unreadable due to repeated copying! Hah.

I did find one problem I hadn't noticed and solved it thanks to you guys. The B pins weren't getting powered. Traced out those pins, and the MREL as suggested. Found that the relay wasn't triggering due to not being grounded. Now the relay clicks when I set the ignition switch to on and the B pins are getting power properly. Sadly, I still have no damn spark at the plugs! I've also noticed that while the wiring diagram I have doesn't seem 100% accurate, but is easy enough to sort out.

I had noted that the contacts in the dizzy were pitted and covered in carbon. I buffed them up on the rotor. I'm not sure if they are any good as they may be too worn as well. Also, in an attempt to trouble shoot, I checked for resistance across the outer points and the center as marked by the red arrows on the attached pic, and it showed as open. I assumed there would be high resistance, but not an open. Any chance one of you can check what resistance you're getting on your side to confirm? I'm guessing I may need a new cap and rotor at this point...but before I embark on the odyssey of getting parts from over seas I'd like to make sure it needs to be replaced!

[thechuckster]

lolz - those drawings have been re-distributed by so many folks self included.


A guy on here (chris_rg) discovered that the rotor has some electronics in it. Would be worth dropping chris a PM on here to ask more info about the rotor so you can check it.

However, until you can confirm that you've got a coil signal going form ignitor to coil then don't bother trying to find/import a cap & rotor.

Are you getting any tacho signal when you crank/attempt-to-start the motor? This would at least tell you that you are getting trigger signals from the dizzi back to the ECU.

Also, am not sure whether the 1G ignitor case has to be earthed - vague recollection suggests it does.

[jonnyincognito]

I thought there might be some electronics in that shiny epoxy in the outer circle in the pic! That stuff is usually used on motorcycle electronics of the same era. The reason I question the rotor is because the contacts were in really bad shape. It just struck me as odd that after cleaning the contacts up I didn't get signal across them.

As far as the igniter, I'll check it again. I had readings on the four pins I traced back at the ECU if I remember after the main relay was working, but Ill double check. I don't remember if it was when the ignition was on or it was when the engine was cranking only. I've checked so much I can't remember what I did and when! I do have the igniter bolted to the engine so it's earthed, just in case its needed. I'll dig through the info and figure out if I can test the whole unit too.

Ill pm Chris right now...thanks for the heads up!

[chris_rg]

Replied to PM.

Basically it turns out the rotor is polarised, each arm with a different polarity. It also has something which doesn't conduct until a high voltage is applied, hence the open circuit when measured with a meter. The coil has a centre tap to allow it to be charged in both polarities. In a stock set up there are two trigger signals going into the ignitor, one of these signal determines the polarity of the coil charge. You guys would know more about the various signals. Because I was driving the stock coil with Megasquirt I didn't realise it had two inputs and one need to select the correct polarity. The two arms on the rotor seems to be set up to fire each on a different charge polarity. My best guess as to why this was done is two reduce risk of cross firing to the wrong post in the cap.

Given you have a stock ECU ignitor, coil, dizzy, none of this should matter too much. Don't rely on a resistance measurement to test the rotor.

Good Luck,

Chris

[jonnyincognito]

Was on vacation last week, so didn't get a chance to work on the engine...will hit it again this week and see if I can trouble shoot the issue. I'm assuming there's something missing that is preventing the ECU from sending the required signals to trigger the igniter.

[jonnyincognito]

Alright, I'm not making any headway. I've got one last thing to try and then I'm about out of ideas!