3VZ-FE into 1973 RT-81 Corona

**TTMX83** · 20-03-2012, 10:06 AM

I thought I would post this up in here to keep my members ride thread free from clutter and make this the area for general discussion about this converson idea.

Little Blue has fianally told me it is ready for a new motor. After the Donuts meet on the weekend, it is smoking heavily on de-acceleration and leaking oil and using oil and under powered, so I did some tinkering in the shed this evening. This is one option I have been fantasising about, whether it can really be done, is another problem!
Pics!!

3VZ-FE. Really is tight. I kept the front cut off the old spare RT-81 for just this purpose. Will need a new sump, from front to mid. Somehow remove the distributor. Starter motor and exhaust on drivers side might not want to play together. Exhaust manifolds from scratch. Recess/scallop out the cross member to get the engine a bit lower. Starter Intake, argh! Run a W50 behind it. Just to name a few things......

This motor would be a piece of piss in something like an early Celica or Corolla with wider chassis rails than I have to work with.

Another engine that has been in my mind a lot of late is a 1ZZ-FE. Light, relatively cheap, makes OK power, and the 1ZZ-FE is common. I'd prefer this in the little car, with quads and extractors, it should make more power than a tired old 4A-GE.
Before you say why not the 2ZZ-GE, well I don't have to worry about perfect gear ratios of going for a 2ZZ-GE.....

Cheers Brad.

**TTMX83** · 20-03-2012, 10:26 PM

Had another look over it tonight with a fresh set of eyes. The starter, steering box and (custom) headers all want to share the same space. Might work but it will be very, very tight. The booster is OK there but would be much nicer if I were to go for a remote booster and update to dual curcuit. Passenger side headers will have to be custom as well. Oil filter will need to be a remote item, No big deal, as it is there is an oil filter extension housing thing there that can be removed.

Water outlet from the rear of the motor that housed all the sensors in it will have to be custom as it wants to point out the rear about 150mm I think it goes to the heater core. Bottom front water outlet with the thermostat in it will be easy. Top front water outlet might foul the bonnet, or at least get in the way of any sort of intake manifold that faces forward.

Sump will need to be converted to mid type, problems here are the oil pick-up as it bolts to the front of the engine, near the oil pump, so that part of the sump will need to be a bit deeper than what I want to accomodate this.

Cross member will have to be sectioned to allow motor to fit lower, they are very similar to early Crown type, made from more metal than needed and just plain bulky, although they have to support the suspension... If I could fit a bellhousing to the motor, I could get a better idea of how far back I can push the motor. As it is, sitting there, it might be able to be pushed back an inch or two, then the sump will go very close to fitting down in the space I have, allowing less mods to the cross member.

Intake. Grrr. This one is probably the biggest issue. There really isn't a great deal of height to be had. It would be a shame to get the engine in and lose performance due to a shit intake design. When I first thought of doing this, I envisaged twin throttle bodies feeding three runners each, on each side of the engine bay. I might just have the height....

Haven't even looked at how or where an exhaust would run under the car...

All food for thought. The exrta weight is a concern although I think I can get just over 50% of it behind the front wheels and lets face it, an RT-81 never really has a chance of being a great handling car, with its truck suspension!!

Please feel free to discuss/comment/add advice ;-)

Cheers Brad.

**fibrewizard** · 20-03-2012, 11:46 PM

distributor removal will be relatively painless, if coil on plug is used, however this will push you away from using the stock ecu, dunno if you planned to use it,....

also the water sensor block, that hangs off the rear of engine, i believe (could be mistaken) that a 4runner had a 3vz-fe so possibly a slightly different setup there for it....

definatley a squeeze, but looks promising and you sound like you got some issues suss'd,
best of luck mate, and keep me updated, if there is anything i can help with let me know.......

edit.......also the 4runner if 3vz-fe has a different intake which might be usefull to you, as it will face your booster, that might be an issue, but at least it wont be facing the firewall like the camry 3vz-fe one will

**TTMX83** · 20-03-2012, 11:52 PM

Thanks for the words!

I was planning on using the factory ECU, but with having to remove the dizzy, aftermarket is looking like a better option. Means I might be able to piss of the sensor block altogether and use a single temp sensor for the ECU and another one inline in the rad hose for the temp gauge.

I think the 4Runner came with a 3VZ-E which is a single cam head. I'm yet to find one to have a gander at. But being RWD already, there are a few parts I can use.

Cheers Brad.

**TTMX83** · 23-03-2012, 01:03 AM

Had a quick look at the thing tonight. No way in the world is the standard manifold going to even come close to working as pictured below. I have 110mm from the top of the bottom half of the manifold before the bonnet bracing, but this will reduce after final engine positioning. Inlet would most likely be 6 tubes approx 43 - 45mm dia bent at 90 deg off the lower section of the manifold heading over the passenger side of the engine bay into a simple round/tube plenum with a forward facing TB. This should keep the runner pretty close to standard lenght. I have no strut towers to deal with which is good.

Looks like I can get away with a 3VZ-E bellhousing (Auto or manual, have to work out heights) from a Hilux/4 Runner, 3VZ-E flywheel and starter motor and make the adapter for the W50 at the gearbox side, unless a W55 or something fits in the tunnel, I have no idea on the size comparison between the two. The Hilux/4 Runner used a R150 or something, so I'd assume a R154 might bolt up, but it's too freaking big for my little car!

Water inlets and outlets are all good, will have to make a new sensor block at the rear of the inlet manifold, but there will be ample room and there should be no problem mating them up to the heater core.

Alternator mounting might ba a hassle, engine mounts will decide whether it is or isn't.

I had a thought that I may be able to space the cross member down off the body a little, like 20mm or something, but it will change the ride height and I'm not sure how safe it would be. Means I would be able to just scallop out the cross member for sump clearance. Sump off a 3VZ-E is sort of a rear sump and might be easier to modify than the Camry front sump.

Cheers Brad.

**MWP** · 23-03-2012, 07:50 PM

Hmm, its a nice idea and i can see why you are thinking it with a spare 3VZ lying around... but really its not sensible engine choice for the car.

The $$s youll need to spend to make it fit will far outweigh buying a different engine that will fit a lot easier.
Plus then there are also the problems of it breaking everything in the driveline (W50, diff) with the torque itll have. If you say "thats ok, ill take it easy", then there is no point installing the engine in the first place.
The 3VZ also isnt light, so the car wont handle as well.
It'll be a defect target too, and itll cost big $$s to get it engineered (if you can do it at all).

Do reconsider...

**TTMX83** · 23-03-2012, 11:07 PM

Thanks for the words mate.

The weight of it is a big concern and I'm sure it would affect the handling but to what extent is the unknown. It has leaf springs in the rear and wishbones in the front, if handling corners was the aim of it, I'd be better off choosing a different car alltogether.

The strength of the W50 is also a concern, but if people have had success putting them behind dirty old Holden engines then it may work. You are right though, would not be taking it easy on it ;-) I Googled heaps last night and could not find the difference is sizes between a W50 and a W55/W58, plus I have a W40 and a W50 already. The diff is always going to be changed, probably to a shortened BW out of a Commonwhore/R31. I had an RT-81 when I was 18 and the original diffs were lasting about 3 weeks tops behind a slightly worked 12R! Brake upgrade is manditory.

It was a matter of having the empty engine bay and a 3ZV-FE sitting there and thinking 'hey, wonder if it might fit?' Not something that will probably ever be finished or even started. I'd prefer a 1ZZ-FE for it is all alloy, smaller, new and cheapish...

I had another look at it tonight. Alternator bolts onto a now empty hole on the engine, would just need to make an adjuster. Raised the engine up 20mm and have got more clearance everywhere and still enough bonnet clearance. Centre line of crank is within 5mm of the 12R's position. Had to bring it forward a touch to for harmonic balancer clearance to cross member. Looking like I wont have to touch the cross member at all, maybe just a little bit of hammer love. But where it is sitting, the middle spark plug is ever so slightly forward of the front axle centre line. Tht's about it for now, without a few more parts, not a lot I can do but just stare at it ;-)

Cheers Brad

**fibrewizard** · 24-03-2012, 11:57 PM

wow, great to hear some progress,

i love these types of conversions, different thinking outside the box.......

all toyota V6's share the same bellhousing bolt pattern, 2vz, 3vz, 5vz, 1mz, and even 2gr,

best of luck mate, looking great so far,
i am close to trial fitting the 3vz-fe with awd tranny into my gt4, maybe tomorrow, dunno depends on time.....

keep the updates coming,

**TTMX83** · 25-03-2012, 01:30 PM

Found this on the Forum and thought I would post it here ;-)

And a Link to the engine repair manual:
http://www.mediafire.com/?i2ottigmy58

Cheers Brad.

**MWP** · 27-03-2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by TTMX83

The weight of it is a big concern and I'm sure it would affect the handling but to what extent is the unknown. It has leaf springs in the rear and wishbones in the front, if handling corners was the aim of it, I'd be better off choosing a different car alltogether.

Same setup as my old RT104 which handled surprisingly well.
Either way, itll make handling quite a lot worse

The strength of the W50 is also a concern, but if people have had success putting them behind dirty old Holden engines then it may work. You are right though, would not be taking it easy on it ;-) I Googled heaps last night and could not find the difference is sizes between a W50 and a W55/W58, plus I have a W40 and a W50 already.

W58's are much stronger.
I have no doubt youll kill a W50 pretty quickly with the 3VZ, where youll struggle to kill a W58 with it.