LSD into AE95 diff housing?

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Thanks OST - I had another pdf re" RS and MZ ..I wanted to link but couldn't figure out how to get it to work on toymods..

[AE25]

curious to know if anyone has successfully tried swapping a std rwd ratio in? (not 2.9) into the ae95 head? just as a replacement kouki open head for late ae86 etc.
confirmation would be handy

[PrettyCoolWagon]

I think the rear ratio has to stay the same in the AE95 other wise it buggers the centre diff

[AE25]

yep tis true.
question was related to using the ae95 head as a donor part into a rwd corolla housing.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Hi guys, dragging this thread up again with a new twist.
I recently joined the Subaru Club of Victoria because they welcome all 'soft-roaders'

I met an old farmer bloke there who's put a hilux diff into his brumby and fitted air-lockers.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
I would like to do the same.
Seems plenty of AE86 owners have also converterd to Hilux diffs and diff shops can swap over all the mounts.

So I have a few questions:
Anyone recommend a shop in Melbourne or Vic that does this kind of work as their bread and butter, including matching the crown and pinion, ..correcting the stud pattern etc?

What's the Hilux diff code most commonly used by the AE86 crowd? (F or G series)
Which of these has a track width closest to the AE86's?
Is it also commonly fitted with air lockers by the 4wd crowd?

If I purchase an air locker, what are my ring gear options for the centre and rear diffs, suited to off-roading.

Here's the corolla AE95 4wd spec's again:

AE95 Solid Axle (coils) T462: 6.7", 2.92:1, 2 pinions, Open
4x100 1325mm Drum brakes.


1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.833 2.045 1.333 0.918 0.775 3.583 3.722
gear box ratios again.

Doesn't have low range, so gotta make the best of it.

[cambelt]

Hi there
Your g/box final and rear diff final ratios you have listed for the AE 95 are not the same . Meaning the centre diff is working all the time . Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they do this to achieve the % difference in drive front to rear .
Dave

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for picking that up.
I got the gear ratios from wikipedia, so they could be wrong, ..but in the Toyota repair manual for chassis & body, corolla 4wd is described as being fulltime 4wd with 50/50 power split front and rear. The centre diff compensates for different rotational speeds of the front rear wheels.

I'm new to understanding 'final drives' ..and still trying to understand how final drive relates to Toyota's alltrac 4wd system.
The front diff and centre diff are virtually side by side in a compact transverse engine/gearbox set up.
Watching this vid at the moment.
Diff2.mp4 Video by YerRand0 | Photobucket

Just started pulling apart some fwd & 4wd boxes. Hope to have some good first hand experience soon.

[AE25]

The "transverse" mounted 4wd system has the diff in the gearbox which matches the ratio stamped on the chassis tag. the transfer case and rear diff just transfer that ratio to the rear and will always stay at 1:1 combined. which DOES NOT MATCH THE FRONT DIFF RATIO. this is only for TRANSVERSE mounted 4wd.
from what ive seen, all the transverse mounted 4wd's have a 2.9:1 rear diff ratio ie the celica gt4, rav4, corolla 4wd, camry 4wd etc.
as said in earlier posts, the transfer case is inverse of the rear, so that it stays 1:1 and thus matches the front diff. inverse of 2.93:1 would be 0.34:1 for the transfer case?
I think what OST was saying about interchangeable diffs, is the mr2 aw11 supercharger and ae92 supercharger have the E series gearbox (albeit 2wd), which may have other diff ratios available for the ae95 4wd E series gearbox that you have.

Nth/sth mounted engines operate the 4wd differently, like a hilux or liteace/masterace 4wd. The front diff DOES have a matching ratio to the rear diff.

Hilux has a 7.5" in the front and liteace has a 6.7" in front, which is how you can find a 4.77 T series gears for ae86. (or a kouki open center for the ae95 rear if you manage to damage spider gears or want to make a locker).

Just so you know, the celica gt4 IRS diff has a bigger spline rear diff than a ae86 kouki diff, so the gt4 6.7" torsen wont fit ae95 axles. gt4 axle is 26.5mm x24 spline.

To put a hilux diff in your ae92, will require you to find an 8" 2.93:1 ratio. good luck on that! lowest available 8" is around 3.3:1 ?
The RN25 series 2wd hilux 8" has a similar width diff to ae86. 1420mm drum to drum.
The ae86 guys in USA use the ma45/46 supra F-series which is 1415mm disk-to-disk.
Theres an excellent swap guide on www.club4ag.com forum

[Xauterus]

If you are using a E58 gearbox in your project, which can be adapted to transfer case, then you can use the 4.5 diff gears or 4.9 diff gears out of the Rav4. I used the 4.5 gears out of a 2az Rav4 in my E58 box when I had it rebuilt. Being AWD you can probably live without the LSD in the rear diff centre.

[AE25]

If you are using a E58 gearbox in your project, which can be adapted to transfer case

Xauterus... interesting. can a 2wd E-box be adapted to 4wd by just swapping on the transfer case? I thought the transfer case was half integrated into the bell housing so you'd have to start out with the 4A version 4wd E box. ie from ae95, ae104, ae114/115?
Or did you mean, you could swap the E58 gears out of a 2wd box into the 4wd A-series Ebox housing?
just to clarify. thanks

[Xauterus]

I believe that you can adapt transfer case onto e58 box. But thinking about it , by the time you disassemble box to fit the parts it might be easier to just swap gear set into your original case. The better combination would be to use a rav4 2az box and swap in the e58 gears, then you get the better transfer case. Rav4 are notorious for wrecking 5th gear.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

QUOTE: " ...The "transverse" mounted 4wd system has the diff in the gearbox which matches the ratio stamped on the chassis tag. the transfer case and rear diff just transfer that ratio to the rear and will always stay at 1:1 combined. which DOES NOT MATCH THE FRONT DIFF RATIO. this is only for TRANSVERSE mounted 4wd... " END QUOTE

Aah finally,
Thanks for clearing that up. It's starting to make sense, now that I'm watching those video links, checking the service manual and beginning to understand the mechanical layout of the drive train. (1st time modder - mostly learning by myself)

@AE25
Some good info there mate - Pos rep' 4 U
I'm still not completely there yet but I see what your getting at about other E-series boxes providing options for front diff ratios.

QUOTE " ...To put a hilux diff in your ae92, will require you to find an 8" 2.93:1 ratio. good luck on that! lowest available 8" is around 3.3:1 ?... " END QUOTE

(you mean: in my AE95)
So, is there an E-series front diff ratio that will match the 3.3:1?
How are you calculating the inverse of the diff ratio?

I'm pulling apart the AE95 4wd box at the moment, along with an E58 LSD front wheel box, ..but haven't got past removing the casing bolts, shifter fork and 5th synchro shifter.
I have to weld up a tool to pull the synchro off, then remove 5th gear and the rear bearing retainer, before I can open up the rest of the box.
I was hoping to use the E58's gears for my street 4wd wagon, but still trying to understand how it's different final drive will affect things, in terms of the rear diff ratio.
Sorry if I haven't understood everything, but I like all the info being put forward. - Thanks all of you

[AE25]

(you mean: in my AE95)
So, is there an E-series front diff ratio that will match the 3.3:1?
How are you calculating the inverse of the diff ratio?

oops yeah ae95.
afaik, no. as there's only one ratio for the rear diff (that i know of), there wouldn't be anything other than one ratio for the transfer box too. im assuming this.
Hmm to try explain.. to retain a 1:1 ratio through two gear sets (transfer box and rear diff) each set is the inverse ratio of each other. so say theoretically the transfer gear was 1:2, then the diff would be 2:1. ie the transfer gear halves the shaft speed, then the rear diff doubles it to maintain a 1:1 ratio. So no matter what front diff ratio there is driving it, so long as the transfer and rear diff ratio equate to 1:1, it will not matter if the front diff ratio is changed.

In the case of the transverse mounted Toyota 4wd, the rear diff is 2.93':1, so transfer case would assumably be 1:2.93' (or 0.341:1 which is an overdrive ratio like a 5th gear in a 5speed box). correct me if i'm wrong, ive never pulled a transfer box apart.

I'm pulling apart the AE95 4wd box at the moment, along with an E58 LSD front wheel box, ..but haven't got past removing the casing bolts, shifter fork and 5th synchro shifter.
I have to weld up a tool to pull the synchro off, then remove 5th gear and the rear bearing retainer, before I can open up the rest of the box.
I was hoping to use the E58's gears for my street 4wd wagon, but still trying to understand how it's different final drive will affect things, in terms of the rear diff ratio.
Sorry if I haven't understood everything, but I like all the info being put forward. - Thanks all of you

You do not change the rear diff ratio regardless. it always stays the same no matter what the front diff ratio is.
You'd change the front diff ratio to suit the engine torque you have or to suit your driving style. Also, if you do change front diff ratio, you also need to exchange the speedo drive gears to match the front diff so that the speedo stays accurate, as it is matched with the diff ratio and tyre rolling circumference combination.
Swapping gearbox gears will change the closeness between each gear change. im assuming the E58 has closer ratio's than a E51 or your 4wd E57F5? closer ratio's suit a narrower power band like a cammed n/a engine. If you then go turbo, you may be changing gears more often than you'd like.
The front diff ratio affects the total gear ratio. A taller (ie 3.9:1) diff ratio will accelerate slower but have a higher top speed. A lower ratio (ie 4.55:1) will accelerate faster but have a slower top speed. 4age's are usually 4.3:1 ratio. According to the ae95 at my local pick-a-part it has an -834 diff code or ... oh, haha ... the online code charts don't go past 73! fail. so i can't tell ya. If you get the box apart, count the diff crown wheel teeth and also the pinion teeth. Then divide the bigger one by the smaller one to find ratio. ie 43 / 10 = 4.3 or 4.3:1
Yeah getting into the transverse box is a biatch without the correct tools. I somehow did it with modified pry bars but not without chipping a few edges off the gear. This was in a C52 to replace 2nd gear synchro. try borrow the correct gear puller if you can, it'll make the job so much easier! hope you have a toyota workshop manual to follow.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Yep, I'm following the toyota work shop manual.
I'm fabricating my own puller specifically for the job.
Ok, so I get the basic idea:
I did a search around and it seems you're correct. All the GT4's, Rav4's & Corolla 4wd's use a 2.928:1 rear diff ratio (maybe some GTfours w/2.933:1) ..which means despite some bolt-up differences, the transfer case for each of thse models would all have the same inverse gearing, ..and like you've said, ..then it doesn't matter what gearbox and final drive you put in front of it.
So long as the rear diff ratio is maintained, the centre diff will be ok.
Which means no Hilux rear diff ..And no diff-lockers for my off-roader! Question solved Thank you. (will just have to fit the strongest possible LSD in the rear)

Now,
Moving on to my street project, ..which is what I'm working on right now..
Yes that's what the E58 gearbox is for.
I've had good chats with one guy who's turbo'd a 4agze corolla 4wd wagon and he says the low ratio'd gearing of 1st and 2nd gears is terrible.
I just happened to buy an unfinished 4AGZE semi-converted to turbo (unfinished project with blown head gasket) ..with E58 LSD and CV shafts all intact.
I already had another 4AGZE from an AW11 sitting around in mint condition so decided to fit the E58 up to it with an after market sc-pulley and mate up the corolla 4wd transfer case..
Then I noticed how different the final drive was between the E58(3.944) and 4wd E57F5 (3.722) .and started to wonder what effect this would have on my driving experience?
IIRC 3rd & 4th are the same and 5th gear is shorter in the E58.
The wagon weighs around 1200 - 1400kg depending on loading.

Found this calculator..
http://www.housemanautosport.com./ra...calculator.htm
Hmmnn.. Good improvement in the low gears, ..maybe loss of economy in cruising top gears, ..but generally seems good.
1st 45km Vast improvement (25km)
2nd 70km About 10km's more (60km)
3rd 107km Bit lower (115km)
4th 147km Can't remember top speed in 4th..
5th 175km Fastest I've ever dared to push the tired old suspension and 4afe was 150km ..there was more poke available but couldn't trust the handling.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Oops!
Calculated that wrong.. entered incorrect engine RPM 7300RPM instead of 8000RPM
(been tossing up between 4A or 7A)
So, more like
50km
80km
120km
165km
195km
That sounds more like it!