Oil squirter fitment into 5SFE block.

[-Totenkopf-]

Well, had a some time yesterday so I thought I'd have a go at this squirter install I've been planning into a 5SFE block.

It didn't start off very well at all. I was checking cutter deflection (its a 6" long cutter, and was only holding in the collet by around 15mm to allow enough length to do the squirter install) in a piece of aluminium plate. Anyway, little did i know, there were some 'not so tapped' threads in this piece of aluminium plate that were actually a steel insert. The cutter was operating at reasonably low speed and grabbed on the steel insert and shed about 2.5 of its flutes on the end... Wonderful.. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother doing anything.



Anyway, after I had a big cry and hissy fit I decided I'd give it a go in spare block I had anyway. It would just be a trial install so surface finish wouldn't matter if it wasn't 100%. I'll get this cutter resharpened but I I'll loose probably 3-4mm in the process, so I don't think it'll be long enough for its intended task anymore (sigh). As such, I'll probably have to buy another one. Being a TiAlN coated carbide extra long series end mill it isn't exactly cheap however.

Poor cutter:





Anyway, so I went about setting up the block, working out some angles and fastening it down to the bed. The first pad started off a bit rough, I overcut on the width on one of the cutters, however, the finish cut was at required width so it still operates as I had intended (ie, the squirter cant rotate, even if it wants to).



Surprisingly, the cutter went OK and the surface finish was nice and smooth. After clocking up the first bore and getting measurements for the location of the first squirter I could then clock up every subsequent bore and mill the pad in the exact same spot. Getting the squirter angle and location was a little tricky. There are ALOT of things you have to dodge in the rotating assembly.



Anyway, took a number of hours but I managed to machine all 4 pads and installed a crank and an old 5SFE piston and rod and placed the squirter approximately where it is to live. F*(!..... Upon moving the piston to bottom dead center it contacted the squirter. Damnit... well.. so I thought. I knew the pistons I am going to use (or was going to use, but the replacement set will be very similar) had a shorter skirt. They also live 1/4" further up the bore due to my longer rods. I needed to get myself about 10mm for the squirters to clear. Luckily, I have about 10mm in the skirt height & another 6.25mm due to rod length, so my pistons will clear AOK.



Pic of standard 5SFE piston vs my (well, actually WIDEMR's now) piston:





Anyway, I am still waiting on my extra long drill bit so I can drill and tap for the banjo bolts (which are a nice low profile button head item). When I get this I'll drill and tap for the banjo into the oil gallery and it'll all be good to go. Unfortunately I won't be able to do this in the mill as I cannot get enough height to fit the block, the drill chuck and then the 8" drill bit in above where I need to drill, so I'll be hunting out the big drill press at work to do this task. Alternatively I can pay about $700 and get a 150mm spacer/adapter for my mill that goes between the head and the base and will give me enough height to do this. I wouldn't mind getting this anyway, but its something I'd prefer not to spend money on right now.



Anyway, a few pictures of as it stands at the moment. Everything clears, yipee. And no, these aren't 3SGTE squirters, you'll never get them to fit in the 5SFE block.

[MWP]

I keep being told not to bother with squirters with forged pistons...
Still its good to see you having a go at installing a set yourself

BTW... what are those pistons?
Cant say i like the idea of those short skirts with the horrible 5S rod/stroke ratio.

[-Totenkopf-]

Yeah, well, certainly. You don't need to worry as much as a forged piston can withstand more heat then a cast piston, however, why not keep temps down and then run tighter piston to bore clearances?

The pistons are a custom CP item, and I am not running 5S rod to stroke ratio. I've got the 5S capacity but with a 3SGTE rod to stroke ratio, thus the reason I've got custom pistons and rods.

[Celica RA45]

does the 5s crank fit into the 3s block at all

[MWP]

Yeah, well, certainly. You don't need to worry as much as a forged piston can withstand more heat then a cast piston, however, why not keep temps down and then run tighter piston to bore clearances?

The pistons are a custom CP item, and I am not running 5S rod to stroke ratio. I've got the 5S capacity but with a 3SGTE rod to stroke ratio, thus the reason I've got custom pistons and rods.

That explains it all
Will be good to see the results.

does the 5s crank fit into the 3s block at all

Yup, it does.

[Celica RA45]

then why go to all of this trouble ,just use a gen 3 block with the squirters

[-Totenkopf-]

3SGTE's have become rather well known for cracking blocks, that is why anyone chasing high output usually goes for a 5SFE block. The passages between 2 and 3 are a siamesed bore for a start, the cylinder walls are thicker and the block has some added reinforcement in some areas. You can also use 87.5-88mm pistons without too much drama for added capacity.

[jonathan yee]

5s crank in 3s block with 0.5OS pistons will only net you just over 2.1L

also if your planning to rev the engine hard for extended periods of time, extra lube and cooling is always a good idea.

[Celica RA45]

so how are we going with the cranks and what is the difference on stroke and bigends compared to std 3sge against 5sfe

[Celica RA45]

i have seen toda cranks at 93mm stroke ,what were you going for

[-Totenkopf-]

The cranks, the billet ones I am enquiring about. Looking good, just awaiting a few more answers from the manufacturer. Once I confirm details I'll get some official interest from people. I run a 91mm stroke as initial had intended on using a factory 5S crankshaft. Standard 5SFE crankshaft is 91mm stroke & 52mm big end, so the big end is usually ground 4mm to accept 5S pistons. My last build I kept it at 52mm and just ran a Pauter 5SFE rod.

[Celica RA45]

if we go this way i will go 45mm bigend and std mains for the 86mm stroke

[-Totenkopf-]

Yeah, well, my intention is to only do standard 3SGTE (86mm stroke, 48mm big end) and 3SGTE in 5SFE stroke (91mm stroke, 48mm big end) so it will be up to you to get the big ends ground. A purchase of 5 equivalent cranks is what is required for the pricing I requested and I just cant see anyone else requiring the 45mm big end. I am happy to try see if I can get you a price for 2 of though, if they are willing to do that quantity.

I was going to get 5 of each of the others.

[Celica RA45]

but its only 2 cranks that need the 45mm bigends ground down they might be able to do in the 5 3sgte cranks that are made up
it doesnt hurt to ask
as these will be nitrided and if i ground later will go through the nitriding

[-Totenkopf-]

I'll ask, no promises. And yeah, if ground the nitriding on those journals would be removed and it would have to be retreated.