GZE ECU with 20v head & throttles?

[Shifty]

Hey kids

Firstly let me start by saying I know the ideal option is an aftermarket ECU. But let's forget that for a minute because it is an engineering issue.

Through chopping and changing of sensors and/or a bit of general fuckery, would it be possible to run a basic 4a+20v head with a GZE MAP ecu?

Engine combo
4A block, 20v B/T head, final CR is 9.0:1 so that's basically like a late 4AGZE which means there's no problem there.

Throttle position sensor
Are GZE/20v TPS similar/same?
If not would it be relatively easy to adapt a GZE TPS to the 20v throttle bodies?

Triggering
20v runs a dizzy at the back of the head.
1. could the GZE ECU work with this
2. if I removed the dizzy (to get room at the back for RWD swap) as I've seen done many times before, and just used this for triggering, is there a way I could run a coil pack or something externally rather than that whole big dizzy contraption?

Anything else I'm not thinking of?
Greatly appreciate any smarts you can offer on this topic

[oldcorollas]

part throttle/low rpm issue of MAP signal (actual value) between what the GZE ECU will expect, and what the quads will give?
at worst it would run rich i suppose.

[Shifty]

Oh and I take that the 20v ECUs can't cope with boost?

[knightrous]

Oh and I take that the 20v ECUs can't cope with boost?

AFM based ones will, but will probably run lean when you start winding the boost in.

[oldcorollas]

other issue i can think of is stumble on accel, due to the air volume vs TPS rate of change being different..

[Drew]

Razorback is the go i think.
uses toyota ecu with programable board in it,looks stock.
can use waste spark with coilpacks, use the dissy as a cas remove the cap & put a plate over it.
Brissy based too

[BLK_20v]

I looked into this as well, and thought long / hard about doing it... Though in the end i bailed out, because of too many unknowns and thought maybe i should just do it properly once.

If you're concerned about engineering and that, wouldn't the turbo be something requiring engineering too? If you got for aftermarket ecu, hide the ecu somewhere behind some trim and try to retain factory wiring if possible.

[Shifty]

I'm not trying to AVOID engineering the car, I'm just trying to limit the list of modifications to things that can be approved with a minimum of hassle.

Changing ECUs requires all sorts of emissions testing which is not available in QLD (way to go gov't, fine us for something that we can't check) whereas fitment of a turbo is OK provided that it fits within certain capacity limits & the car retains the standard ECU and all emissions gear for that motor (eg. catalytic converter, charcoal canister, EGR / PCV systems, etc).

I wish the gov't wouldn't make it so damn hard to do the right thing... no wonder most of us don't even bother trying.

[mattysshop]

shifty -

essentially your doing what i did many many years ago... i ran a stock GE ecu, on a smallport with quads, with one of those billet T3 adaptors...

what you will find if you run a 16v TPS on the 20v quads.. is you will only have about 1/3rd throttle before spark cuts...

you need a 20v TPS, on the quads, BUT wire it in reverse on your GZE wiring loom...



tps > loom
brown > yellow
Blue > red
Red > Blue
Yellow > brown


hopefully that helps..

P.s. the 20V manifold reads Map pressure just fine... i had problems with inconsistant vac on the T3 manifold going to my stock GE map ECU, which caused massive overfuelling.. but you should have a much more stable map source due to the lower manifold the quads sit on..

let me know how it goes mate!

[trdee]

it will run like sweaty man-balls on a MAP ecu. you would have better luck with an AFM setup

[mattysshop]

try it shifty.... basically your putting quads on a 16v setup.. which i have proven works well enough... and on yours it should have a very steady Map signal.. (see red line on graph of me data logging an S/T 20v for AFR's (experimenting with much larger 3sgte AFM which worked brilliantly i might add))

what injectors are you using? 1JZ?

you are compensating with boost, which the ecu will map just fine...

Graph

[mattysshop]

sorry i realised i only answered part of your question..

as for triggering... have a quick read of this thread... makes 20v RWDing just that weeee bit easier

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=18900&page=4

[Shifty]

ta mate

what's the go with the reasons for wiring of the tps?

[RT40Corona4AGTE]

differing directions. the tps is basically a variable resistor. usually +5V on one end, GND on the other and the wiper which spits out 0-5V as the tps is moved which is the signal fed to the ecu. you are basically reversing the +5V and GND connections to make it swing from 0 - 5V as the throttle is moved.

[mattysshop]

what RT40 said...

i had to do this when running my 16v ecu, with the 20v quads...

it took me alot of swearing... then eventually got the shits, drove it (with 1/3 throttle) to Ant Kellam's house on a sunday morning (he was not impressed lol) and this was the solution he came up with... i went home wired it as he explained... and bingo...

didn't help that i was using a 16v TPS either... the solution was 20v tps, wired in reverse...