ae86 front end in a ra40?

[keseventy]

Hey all,
Ive searched around and i found out the only coilovers i can buy for my ra40, are the weld on type. Im not much of a fan of the idea, and seeing 'BC racing' have a full coilover kit (front and rear) for the ae86, i was wondering if its possible to run the ae86 front end in a ra40, without messing around with the steering geometry too much!? Im fairly certain that ra40 strut tops and steering arms would need to be replaced with ae86 items too, but can someone clarify this for me?

Thanks

[beerhead]

Don't be scared of weld on sleeve's, it's been a proven method for decades and gives the option to be able to run koni's, bilsteins, tokico's, KYB's all of which will walk all over a Taiwanese shock with total sales that probably don't match the amount of money spent on R&D by these big names.

I also don't like the idea of running the AE86 gear in a bigger car. They have smaller diameter bearings, designed for a lighter car, excess heat in the group A AE86 track car's lead them to go to oversize billet setup to reduce frictional losses at 200+ K's. So in a heavier car that will be amplified.

BTW, If you can get hold of the early model of BC coilovers they actually are welded to the cast stub axel assembly after removing the old shocky tube. The new ones are a entire strut with a stub.

You'll only need the steering arms. Never checked, but I'd bet the RA40 strut tops have a different stud spacing than an AE86.

[keseventy]

The full BC kit is going for, on average $1200 including the rear shocks and spring, 32 way adjustable dampers all round and are made of steel not aluminum, so its not a bad price really.

Interesting about the bearings though, although it is only for my roadcar, i wouldnt be hitting 200kays an hour too often... haha! whats an 86 weigh roughly? around 900-950 id imagine? with the boat anchor 18rg upfront im guessing the ra40 weighs around 1100?

Its looking pretty good then, for what i want them for anyway.

[beerhead]

You'll need some doner AE86 struts for the hubs,backing plates, rotors and calipers, plus they're smaller brakes. So you're upgrading your handling capability and downgrading the brakes. Could be a recipe for disaster!

Up to you I guess, but I'd take a good Japanese or European shock and weld on kit any day over a cheap bolt in kit that hasn't been on the scene for too long. Just make sure you can get the shocks reco'd in Aus if you go down the BC route.

[Celica RA45]

std ra40 is 1250 kilos with air ae86 is 950 kilos

[Rodger]

As far as I know AE86 and RA23/28 RA40 front struts use the same sized bearings and stub axle and do not go on what what is in local bearing catalogues show as they are known to be wrong through the Celice range.
The difference is all in back spacing of the disc mounting face of the hub and inside diameter of the disc.

Regards

Rodger

[thechuckster]

If you were swapping struts, then you may as well look at swapping the entire front end to give you RnP steering. In some ways, the improved steering would be more of a win than using random eBay coilovers. Whether you could get the cross member aligned correctly (am assuming the subframe<->chassis mount points are different) is a big unknown.

Rex Kelway offered some recent opinions about the strength of AE86 bearings/struts - in that they were pretty bloody strong.

[beerhead]

Just double checked the catalog, RA40, RA60 and XT130 struts run the same bearing, AE86 and RA28 are the same too. So they're a few mm bigger in diam.

I think the AE86 bearings are strong, but when you overload a bearing you amplify it's frictional losses, and sacrifice life span. I bet Saki drinking Toyota techs thought heaps more about this than any of us, did all the maths and went bigger bearings for a reason. I personally wouldn't downgrade any component in a car that has moving parts or bearings that takes a load. I bet any mech engineer would agree that running a wheel bearing assembly from a car with a lower tare weight in a heavier car isn't a sound practice.

[RAAAH23]

but the materials (therefore properties) used in the bigger ra40 bearing my vary to the smaller ae86 bearing and those properties may infact be better (interms of strength and wear) than the older bigger bearing.

[beerhead]

Age of the tech means nothing. These bearings all have same metallurgy, taper and fundemental way of distributing the load using a roller bearing. The only difference is one is larger in circumference, so it either has extra or larger rollers in the race with a larger surface area to distribute the load across the larger bearing cup.

[WDE_BDY]

Just double checked the catalog, RA40, RA60 and XT130 struts run the same bearing, AE86 and RA28 are the same too. So they're a few mm bigger in diam.

MS65 hubs go onto RA40, RA60, XT130 and RA28 stubs, they do not fit AE86 as they are smaller/shorter stubs. Therefore you are downgrading the stub axle size when for serious use you would be expecting to upgrade. Personally I would just fit threaded sleeves and decent shocks to the standard struts.

Callum

[Rodger]

Someone needs to bust this wide open. Has anyone got an AE86 original strut and any of the RA23/28/40 ones beside it.

Takai?

The similar threads below almost have the info in there. But I am sure the bearings used are the same, the stub axles are the same and the hubs are basically the same.

The TA22 ones are the smaller ones in the range.

As for weight on those later bearings, Holden through the early H Sedan and the Comodore range used the same bearings. Perhaps not an ideal endoresment, either meant Holden under engineered or Toyota over engineered.

Rodger

[beerhead]

That settles it! I'm gonna go to the bearing shop and get a photo of the RA40 bearings side by side with the AE86 the way this is going Though somebody should have some piccies hiding somewhere. I was excited about going corona struts in my KE70, because I like the idea of less drag at high speed in a track car...

Rodger your dam right - they put 400kg of 308 and T400 on top of these corona size bearings, I bet it was holden not engineering anything. The bearings are the same as the universal trailer hub bearings that have been used for 70 odd years, which are available in load ratings of a tonne an axle. You can even get marine grade bearings too.

[WDE_BDY]

I have personally put MS65 hubs on RA28, TA63, MA61, TT141 and TT132 struts. They did not fit the late model KE70 struts (1985, apparently the same as AE86) and I am yet to see anyone on this forum successfully fit the MS65 5 stud hubs to an AE86 strut. The stubs are bigger than earlier KE70 but the bearings are spaced closer together than the other large stub struts apparently.

Callum