18R carb help needed badly

[ValgeKotkas]

Hi,
may I present you a highly pornoed engine:

This engine was transplanted into this Soarer by one of the previous owners (yes, I'm probably going to throw a 7mgte in there, but I just wanted to make a quick round in the village with this engine ).
Half of the carb or parts relavant areprobably missing (I searched the 18R diagram thread etc - air pump, VCV's and stuff should probably be there?).
Other half is probably broken and non-functional.
The second butterfly isn't operated by anything basically (though I cannot understand the blown diagrams either, so maybe someone has some pictures that show how everything should be put together and function ?)


I did the best I could with the vacuums, but maybe someone could enlighten me

(+what doesn the valve do that's on the next pic that has this spring attached (spring itself is for the "automatical" retraction of the manual choke)? The lever on it goes nowhere, the vacuum on it goes to the electronical VSV, but the other end on the VSV is open).





Though once or twice I got it running quite normally at idle for some time til it died off, so that's why I'm asking for help!
The fuel pump wasn't there when I got the car, and as noone offered 18R mech pump I ordered one of those - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELECTRIC-FUEL-...item5d2e4fc3a0 (IIRC it said to pressure up to 7psi when I bought mine, but mine's identical to that picture.). It fills up the little screen where you can see fuel level, though doesn't push fuel out of the carb like I had done with other pumps when testing.


The car starts (sometimes needs more, sometimes less cranking), and usually starts shaking at about under 500rpm til it dies off. Sometimes I have got it running for a little while when playing with the chocke butterfly (just a taaad bit open). Once it ran at about 1k rpm for itself, over a whoooole minute! (White/blue smoke out of the tailpipe, so I'm guessing reaally rich).
Once gas is given, it dies certainly.
Could it be that the pump is overflowing and I can't see it (sorry, it's basically the first carb I see )? But if I disconnect the power to the pump, it doesn't run better (or it doesn't run better NOW anymore cause the cylinders are filled with gas maybe??).
Any other ideas (trash the engine NOWWWW?? )
And yes, maybe someone could get those pictures, I couldn't find any myself, so I could try and get the stuff to working.
Any advice on the vacuums?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Jüri

[MWP]

Most of the diagrams youll be finding are for the 18R-C, not for the 18R.
The 18R didnt have any pollution control stuff on it, so it was a much simpler (and more powerful) engine.

There is a little glass window on the side of the carb.
Clean it up so you can see through it. When the engine is running, you should be able to see the fuel level inside.
It should sit at 1/2 way up the window.
To high or too low means you have fuel pump or bowl float/valve problems.

If thats ok, then play with the idle fuel needle setting.
There are two small vac hoses that come out of the bottom of the carb. The idle needle adjusting screw is between those.

Here are some photos of my old 18R carb... might help maybe?
It was modified to always open the second throat above ~75% throttle as the original diaphragm controlling it was dead.
I still have this carb sitting in the gararge i think. Shame your not in Aus, i would post it to you if you wanted it.
















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[ValgeKotkas]

Thanks for the pics, have to inspect them!

I have the screen visible. Usually it's full, if I turn the engine's off, I can hear the fuel gurgling back and then I can see the fuel level at just a bit over half. Haven't had a possibility to check it while it's running, cause ... well you know
Is it hard (do I have to dismantle the full carb) to get to the floater bowl and valve? Guess so....?

E: ran the engine (if you can call that running) and looked at the screen. About 2/3 full.

Took the carb off, is this normal :
Fuel

Valve not closing fully (remember from my buddys suzuki carb that everything was closed? Or it had extra idle ports,hmm. Have to go through the green 18R repair manual )


that's how mine looks:



Gonna try to dismantle, clean and research it tomorrow. Extreme "adventure".

He's waiting

[Dazza]

Definately getting too much fuel. You only need 5psi fuel pressure. You need to take the top off the carby to set the float level. While you have the top off the carby take the float off and check the needle under it. The tip of the needle can wear so it doesnt seal properly when the float pushes on it to shut it off. Some needles are solid brass and can get an indentation worn into it. Other needles have a viton tip which is like rubber and they can tear so they have a piece missing or can have a flap that can cause it to leak sometimes but not always. A carby rebuild kit should have a new needle and seat in it. I can see you have a spring missing from one of your throttle linkages. the second barrel of you carby will not work if the spring is not connected. It is hooked through the round plastic thing on your throttle linkage normally and the other end goes up near your choke somewhere. It might be easier to get another carby because yours looks fairly rough and has a lot of bits missing. They are normally fitted with an automatic choke which has been converted to a manual choke on yours. The thing with the wire going into it is the idle fuel cut solenoid and needs to have power going to it so your engine will idle

[ValgeKotkas]

You mean the thing on the side of the Carb with the wire? Or the VSV that on the body of the car?

Just took it apart, was full of crap ofcourse One more cool tuning- of the main (?) jets (that have the bolts on the side of the carb to cover them) was tuned with a wire through the hole to not let through so much fuel. Cool
otherwise other jets and needles sseem to be ok and not damaged.

And that is not a 18R carb. As i have some of the emission stuff.... I took it apart too fast, thinking that the repair manual will help me afterwards and as I now see it just doesnät show half the things I have oeh...

[Dazza]

I meant the thing on the side of the carb with the wire. I think the VSV hose is going to a high speed idle actuator on your carb. It is normally used to increase the idle speed when you turn on air conditioning or with some cars when you turn the steering wheel with power steering. It looks like someone has attempted to stop it getting too much fuel by blocking a jet off with wire. The overfuelling issue could be caused by a faulty float also. Sometimes the float becomes porous and acts like a sponge so it absorbs fuel from the fuel bowl and then sinks instead of floating. Hold the float in a container of fuel for around 20 seconds and then take it out and wipe it dry with a rag then check for any damp spots to appear. If any damp spots appear then it is porous and is absorbing fuel. Its best to replace the float if this happens, but i have repaired them by placing them in a warm spot to dry out and then applying a thin coating of an epoxy resin or Araldite.

[ValgeKotkas]

And I already assembled it yesterday, dam. Port matched the intake manifold with the carb as good as I could too, just for experience
Well, if it won't work now then I'll try what you suggested (if I won't trash that engine first )

E:
These are from couple of days back

How it started and ran for itself for some time, you can also see the fuel level (I think I raised it now a little, went by the book and the ~5mm between the cover and the floater) and the blueish smoke! Then dies for no reason (watch in HD )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUzhz4mvJg8

How it starts and dies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBalUEX5-U0

Will get some new videos today, maybe After the silicone-seals are settled.

E2: Tried it out. It started and the rpms went to max 500, bogged for a sec then death. I could keep it alive for a bit by pressing/depressing the gas , but it bogged under the 400-500 rpm range, until death came. At least it doesn't die now when I press the gas!
The float was too high. I opened the carb and set the float to about 5mm lower or so, we'll see how it goes tomorrow (the needle/float seem to hold pressure, so no gas should overflow. I tried blowing into the fuel hole with no luck (thats good ). Even if the float is porous I should get it started and at least idling for some time.

[ValgeKotkas]

Cranks but no start. Pressing the gas changes the sound of the cranking to a bit deeper one. Fuel level in the screen is nicely at the middle.
Throttle lever holder flew off too, *****************...

[Dazza]

It sounds like it is not getting enough fuel. You might need to pull the carby apart again and spray some carby cleaner through all the jets and use some compressed air if you can to give it a proper blow out. You could try adjusting the idle mixture screw out a bit(anticlockwise) to get it to idle. unscrew the idle fuel solenoid and idle mixture screw and blow compressed air in the holes in the carby. The exhaust looks like it is only condensation in the exhaust from sitting around not being used. Also check your ignition timing because it sounds a bit retarded to me. The ignition points in the distributor could be burnt or worn which will alter your timing, so take the distributor cap off and have a look at them.

[Dazza]

I just noticed a problem with you vacuum hoses. There should be a hose from your vsv to the thing on the thermostat housing so you have vacuum advance to your distributor. It would be best to connect the hose from your carby directly to the vacuum advance can on your distributor. Where the hose normally goes to the thermostat housing is a thermal switching valve which restricts vacuum advance when your engine warms up. It is part of the emissions equipment and will make your engine sluggish and use more fuel so people normally bypass it. The vsv will stop vacuum advance totally when it is shut off at certain times. You really need the vacuum advance working when your engine is cold so try to get that working before you do any more to the carby.

[ValgeKotkas]

Thanks!
I opened one of the throttle valves so I could see inside of the manifold - all I can see there is fuel Could it still "get" not enough fuel?
When I had the carb apart last weekend I blew everything out, double and triple, also with carby cleaner. Should be like brand new Though I will still try to do that whilst on car, maybe some silicone has gone into the lines! (I know...I should've bought some paper and cut out new seals, but I wanted to try it so - I hope it doesn't suck in air somewhere, could that also be the problem?) I hope I put all the screws and diuses in the right position (as I said, I hoped that book will be right, but...)


Today I tried the ignition stuff - cleaned the carbon fouled denso iridiums I had there for half a year (taken from my supra back then - those helped to start the car then). Cleaned the wire ends and also cleaned the ends on the distributor cap (where the wires go in - full of dirt ofcourse). Gapped the plugs to spec.
Though that all didn't help to get the spark prettier and stronger to the eye. Btw. I had to take the plugs out 2 times after cleaning, I cranked the car inbetween that and they were dry.
Have to go and try that idle screw.

But now, at the timing thing I stop understanding I'll take a picture, maybe you'll see something.



E:

I just noticed a problem with you vacuum hoses. There should be a hose from your vsv to the thing on the thermostat housing so you have vacuum advance to your distributor. It would be best to connect the hose from your carby directly to the vacuum advance can on your distributor. Where the hose normally goes to the thermostat housing is a thermal switching valve which restricts vacuum advance when your engine warms up. It is part of the emissions equipment and will make your engine sluggish and use more fuel so people normally bypass it. The vsv will stop vacuum advance totally when it is shut off at certain times. You really need the vacuum advance working when your engine is cold so try to get that working before you do any more to the carby.

Good catch. That was how the engine originally came to me. Now I've connected it to the thermostat. Gotta rewire it to the carb then.

[ValgeKotkas]

The dizzy



This is how it's setup now. Does it seem to be about right?



E: It isn't getting enough of the "right" fuel I guess. Tried to give it some extra gas from a can (contact cleaner) and it gave hope of starting. Without it, no, jsut cranking. If i press gas and look into the carb it isn't spraying anything into the hole...so I'm thinking maybe the seal of the piston that pumps fuel inside the carb doesn't hold (it was kinda hard when I took it out when cleaning the carb, so I tried to soften it a bit, but probably it didn't help)? Though shouldn't it actually start without it, only on the idle diuses or so?)

[Dazza]

The accelerator pump should squirt fuel into the carb every time you open the throttle. If it is not working it could be from the piston not sealing in the bore it runs in. Some piston seals were made from leather and usually soften up so they seal when they are wet with fuel. Other piston seals are rubber and can wear out or get hard so they dont seal. There should be a small ball bearing sitting in the bottom of the carb under the accelerator pump which acts as a check valve to let fuel into the pump and stops the pump pushing fuel back into the fuel bowl. the ball bearing can get rusty so it doesnt seal and it could also be jammed in the bottom with crap from old fuel. You will need to pull the choke on fully to start it in cold weather and then slowly push the choke in as the motor warms up. The inside of your distributor doesnt look very nice. Try turning the rotor button anticlockwise and see if it springs back to where it is. If you can turn it backwards and it spring back then the mechanical advance is working. Sometimes they seize up with rust. You are supposed to take off the rotor button and then pull out the rubber plug in the centre of the distributor shaft so you can put a couple of drops of thin oil in there to lubricate the mechanical advance then put the rubber plug and rotor back on. The igntion points are on the right side of your distributor in your first pic. Take the rotor button off and open the points with your finger or a scrwdriver. The top part of the points should open out towards the edge of your distributor. Then check the surface of the points that touch together when they are closed. There should be no bumps or hollows on the surface. You should be able to buy new points if yours are worn but you have to set them up properly when you put them in.

[ValgeKotkas]

Jep, mine was made of rubber I guess. I tried to soften it with some oil, but probably didn't do a good job enough. It isn't squirting anything... I remember removing the wire "filter" before the ball bearing and it was a bit dirty. Though I pushed compressed air everywhere, at least where the gun came close, maybe I didn't do it good enough and the ball is sticking That'd be shit.
Thanks, I'll look into the dizzy today!