Matching your head to your o-ringed block.

[PHOBIA]

How are we troops, as many of you may or may not know I have been struggling with head sealing problems with the 22R-E at anything over 22psi. Well after many frustrating attempts at it myself I put out the feelers to find out if anyone with experience had a cure. Well, I got everything from gluing the head down to throw out the copper gasket all together.
Well im happy to report that by golly gosh I think we have it. After partially disassembling the engine I took PHOBIA down to Allan Ross on the coast, after we removed the head it was obvious that combustion energy was being lost not only between cylinders but into the water jackets as expected. The combination of the ARP head bolts torqued to 100ftlb's and the 2mm copper head gasket sealed with 3bond11 where just not cutting it. After advice from his head machinist, Alan suggested machining a 1mm deep by 1mm wide ring into the face of the head to match the o-ringed block.
In theory this should allow the copper gasket to seat itself into this gap with the pressure from the o-rings.
Basically im exited to get the head back on and onto the dyno to see the results. From all accounts there was plenty of power being lost so the results should be interesting.
I am however interested to get your feedback on this. Does anyone have any experience with this procedure good or bad or have you never even heard of it.

[thechuckster]

i though you needed to o-ring both sides of a copper gasket?

[RWDboy]

I dunno how well it will work to be honest. What thickness o-ring are you using ?

The idea of the o-ring in the first place (copper being a malleable material) is that it will cause extra pressure (by having a smaller gap between the head and block) along the line that the o-ring traces, thus, providing a better seal. If you have a ring carved out in the *edit* head */edit* to match it - then there will possibly be no extra pressure on that o-ring path, and hence the gas will be naerly as capable of escaping through the path underneath the gasket and the block as if there was no o-ring there at all.

It could be a limitation in the design of the head and the wall-wall spacing of the block. Aside from going for a more rigid head material (ie iron) your only other option might be to find a way of reducing flex in the head (maybe using some welded-in bracing material), and thus better distributing the clamping torque on the material between the combustion chambers.

But yeah - i could be wrong, let us know how it goes

[RWDboy]

i though you needed to o-ring both sides of a copper gasket?

Nah it's not necessary, it is done though. I'm assuming if it was an issue where the gas was consistently escaping ... say ... between the gasket and the head (rather than between the gasket and the block) that double o-rings would've been considered and then tested

[PHOBIA]

The rings are only 1mm by 1mm. I understand your theory about the reduced pressure but I think any looses if all will be minimal and the positive pressure on the head side will be worth it. Interesting thoughts though. Thanks and I’ll keep you posted.

[kingmick]

How are we troops, as many of you may or may not know I have been struggling with head sealing problems with the 22R-E at anything over 22psi. Well after many frustrating attempts at it myself I put out the feelers to find out if anyone with experience had a cure. Well, I got everything from gluing the head down to throw out the copper gasket all together.
Well im happy to report that by golly gosh I think we have it. After partially disassembling the engine I took PHOBIA down to Allan Ross on the coast, after we removed the head it was obvious that combustion energy was being lost not only between cylinders but into the water jackets as expected. The combination of the ARP head bolts torqued to 100ftlb's and the 2mm copper head gasket sealed with 3bond11 where just not cutting it. After advice from his head machinist, Alan suggested machining a 1mm deep by 1mm wide ring into the face of the head to match the o-ringed block.
In theory this should allow the copper gasket to seat itself into this gap with the pressure from the o-rings.
Basically im exited to get the head back on and onto the dyno to see the results. From all accounts there was plenty of power being lost so the results should be interesting.
I am however interested to get your feedback on this. Does anyone have any experience with this procedure good or bad or have you never even heard of it.

shame i only just started posting again or i could of told you all about it! im sure i have posted about oring and reciever in the head to create a W seal. 60 pounds is all you need with the head studs 65 if you want a bit more.
recieve in the head is the way to do it! it isnt hard to do just takes time to get it right.
you have to also properly aniel your copper gasket when you reuse it.
3 bond you only need a very fine wipe on the surfaces.
maybe you need to softness test your head to check the alloy isnt to soft from heating cycles.
ask away if you want to know anything else.

[PHOBIA]

shame i only just started posting again or i could of told you all about it! im sure i have posted about oring and reciever in the head to create a W seal. 60 pounds is all you need with the head studs 65 if you want a bit more.
recieve in the head is the way to do it! it isnt hard to do just takes time to get it right.
you have to also properly aniel your copper gasket when you reuse it.
3 bond you only need a very fine wipe on the surfaces.
maybe you need to softness test your head to check the alloy isnt to soft from heating cycles.
ask away if you want to know anything else.

Receiver groove, that's the word I was looking for. We will be anieling the gasket again and only rubbing a bit of 3bond11 around the water ports. Thanks for your encouraging words. Can't wait to get it all back together.

[kingmick]

coat the full surface with 3 bond. this way has never failed to do the job right for me!

waiting always the hardest part!

[PHOBIA]

Thanks mate, it is.

[3t-RA40]

When I had my engine built the first time with o rings using a standard HG no reciver groove. When I changed to a copper HG was told to get the reciver groove done. Have never had any issues, standard head bolts at 75 foot pounds, and running up to 14 psi in the past. Now been tuned to run up to18.5psi with the Haltech on no problems, so far

[PHOBIA]

Good to hear mate. Thanks for the feedback.