Megasquirt users thread to discuss all things Squirty

[old_mr2]

Good to hear you got her started OC.

...Tomorrow I am going to get some single sheilded cable, and wire directly to the VR sensor and see how that goes. My current wiring is mixmatched and prone to noise, hopefully I can get rpm and get it to fire up. EVen if I can get it to cough/splutter I will be happy as it means im getting closer.

[oldcorollas]

I forgot to mention something.
I have 2 dizzys giving rpm signal in test conditions. One is complete and the other is missing its cam gear (because we were going to remove a tooth from the 24 point wheel,havent done this yet)
If we wire up the dizzy without the cam gear and put it in the head, you can crank the car and spin its rotor by hand and get rpm, spark and fuel.
But the dizzy with the cam gear on, driven off the camshaft will not give rpm signal.
Summary, whenever dizzy is driven off the camshaft, no rpm signal produced. Otherwise works fine for both dizzys under test conditions.

so...

if you have the dizzy with no gear in the head, and crank the engine, and spin the dizzt, do you get rpm signal in TS?

it seems odd that both dizzys work fine on a drill, and work when spun by hand, but the only time it doesn't work is when engine is cranking and cam is turning dizzy...

my first thought would be that either the power to MS is having problems when cranking.. either too low, or it is not getting power when the key is turned to "start" as opposed to "IGN"...
second thought is that one of the VR wires in the geared dizzy, is earthing on the body when it is installed? remote chance but...

so yeah, check the MS power during cranking first.

i can't imagine there would be heaps of noise to affect the VR signal during cranking...


hmm, want to borrow a dual trace scope tomorrow??

edit: i'm stoked it starts too so happy i can piss off the neighbours again
i checked timing again today, marking a "minus 20" point on the crank pulley.

trigger offset is 14deg adn seems spot on.
idle advance is an actual 32deg (idles around 70kpa)!! seems like a lot, but doesn7t like a lot less.... burbles away nicely at around 1100rpm when the fan is on, and 1200-1250 when fan is off....
when i go for blueslip, i might lave the lights on for extra electrical load

and blipping throttle revs so nicely and i haven7t even started playing with rest of table yet.. just ported the fuel over from MS1, and the timing is all abotu 30deg

[jabbatron]

Video!!!!!!!!

[old_mr2]

Hi,

Thanks for the offer. I have been using Tuner studio tooth logger and when using the drill the signal looks perfect. You can clearly see the home signal right to 6500rpm~. Ill take a screenshot tomorrow.

There was 1 crank out of about 10 where I actually got sync and cranking rpm (off cam gear) but I never got it again. So, fixing up my mixmatched wiring has to be done anyways, as its far from ideal

[oldcorollas]

i did have issues with the signal not being picked up when i was first trying to start... not totally sure why.
I fiddled with a few things..

i found if i decreased "skipped pulses" from the std 4 to 2 or 1, then i would get pulses more often. (pulse being an injector flash on my MS)
when i put it to 6, i would get none at all.
i also changed the cranking "next pulse tolerance" to 70% and i think that helped a bit.

yeah, shielded wire might help.. (remember to only earth it at ECU end etc. yeah i know everyone always says that )

with scope, you could hook directly to the VR sensors, and see if they are giving signal during cranking... thene move to the input pins on the MS to see if it the wiring.. then to the output of the VR conditioner et cetc... try to find where it is getting lost..
it could just be being filtered out by the MS settings...

btw, you have to pay and register TS to get the logger?

anyway, the scope is dual trace and is sitting idle if you want to use it is old, but works, and could be helpful

edit: what is battery voltage getting down to? mine would go down to 9.8 or so, but still get signal.. but i'm using the external ignitor with 1K pullup feeding straight into the optocoupler...
but as battery died and voltage got lower (i didn7t check how much.. it just stopped beign able to crank ) it stopped doing anything

today with fully charged battery, it cranks at maybe 500rpm

[oldcorollas]

also, are you logging the starting attempts? could be useful...

for some reason my dwell was going to 12ms or higher when trying to start at first.. buggered if i know why...

[old_mr2]

well nothing went as planned yesterday. Got some sheilded cable and tried some bench testing, tooth logger is all over the shop and home signal cannot be seen. Didnt bother capturing it as its useless. I think the cable thiuckness is too small (under the sheilding) as it looks to be only aboht 1.5mm. Ill try some other cabling and/or shorten the shilded cabling and try again.

BTW Tooth Logger is free with Tuner studio Lite and their are other loggers as well that might interest you.

[oldcorollas]

think the cable cannot handle the current of the VR??
does trigger logger log the actual sensors, or the ECU filtered signals only?

hmm, my TS doesn't seem to have tooth logger, but i didn't actually look hard for it

offer of scope still stands


OK, this seems like a good enough thread for it.
i'm getting a wideband... just not sure which one...
I like the idea of the NGK ones... they can run either bosch or NTK sensor, and look simple.
LC1.. they are ok, but i have my doubts on their control circuit method, and their quality control...
others... not sure there are others within a reasonable price...

one thing i noticed is the speed of response.. or of screen updating, on the NGK is slower... at first i thought it's because the circuit is slow, but maybe it is just done that way so it is easier to read?
the LC1's seem to jump around all over the shop, and while the display may be more "accurate", it certainly seems harder to read.

I'll probably go back and forth between gauge and using TS/MT to read the actual values, but won't be a permanent install, just tuning.

links to vids..
NGK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8nqYNDpDE8 here i can see the benefit of it juyst updating every 4 or 5 times per second.. you can glance and see what it is.
and again here http://www.ls1tech.com/affiliates/tr...d.php?t=438100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3PeV23ofM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQvWX...eature=related
could it be too slow? i suppose for seriosu tuning, you would be going to relatively constant load/dyno, as opposed to transients? hmm

LC1. jumps around a lot.. making the actual numbers meaningless at times?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bBPaf3Y3Vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKS5m...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEDRuY-OUMs(on an Ultima)
not so bad here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_0ji...eature=related



AEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Xp4...eature=related

PLX lambda meter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tb_m...eature=related

[oldcorollas]

prices..
Bmotorsports http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/ind.../cPath/103_107
NGK= US$260 + (NTK) + $63 shipping (2 NGKs would be $93 shipping...)
AEM= $210, gauge controller (bosch)
from NGK US site http://www.ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=20509
NGK = $260 +$123 by UPS (sent email about USPS EMI)

Ebay, $245+60

Amazon sells for $266, only US shipping
http://www.amazon.com/NGK-Powerdex-A...3985103&sr=8-1

here is $290 and has $56 USPS EMI shipping and has "request a pricematch"
http://www.frsport.com/NGK-AFX-Power...or_p_2315.html

or local shop AEm via ebay = $230 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AEM-Air-Fuel-...item2a0ee52672


edit: oh, and does anyone want to get one and save a bit on shipping? (i spose maybe only $15 or so?)

[thechuckster]

you can change the sampling rate for an LC1 - same applies to the rate of sampling when the ECU is applying any AFR correction. Might make it less like it's bouncing all over the place?

[3jcelica]

My LC1 died last weekend (controller) after a bit over a year of minimal work, have a search around and you will find that a lot of people have had a lot of trouble with the power circuit in them.

A lot of people use them and no problems,

My next one wont be an LC1, next time I will have a go with an AEM I think.

Roger

[oldcorollas]

yeah, i'm shying away from the LC1 for that reason, and read that AEM gauges crap out early too? only on one or two pages tho... but AEM are cheap locally = $230! compared to US$320 (about $310 after C/card fees)

hmmm. BGK averages the samplign over 250ms = 4 updates per second..

googling "problems" with AEm or NGK.. a lot more hits on AEm.... but it'S faster and looks prettier

[MWP]

LC1. jumps around a lot.. making the actual numbers meaningless at times?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bBPaf3Y3Vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKS5m...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEDRuY-OUMs(on an Ultima)
not so bad here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_0ji...eature=related

The XD16 gauge is the only one you can fully trust the reading of.
The other gauges (like the first two videos) do: sensor->lc1->analog 0-5V->gauge (has adc then display). The analog bit makes them inaccurate and prone to wiring problems.
The jumping around might be because the LC-1 is quick enough to read individual cyl pulses in the exhaust (or so ive read).

My LC-1 is still good 1yr on.

[oldcorollas]

"sparkplugs.com" (who i thought was NGK US..) will ship for $74.60 (priority mail flat rate box) and it comes with NTK sensor from them. prompt reply and helpful.

i also got a reply from a local shop, EFI.com.au. (Automotive Service Solutions)....
their flyer says $885+GST....
I thought the AUD was strong?

[thechuckster]

I thought the AUD was strong?

bah - the dollar is now ~$1.10US - yet the fuel up here after Easter has actually gone up from the amazing low of 135c/l on the holiday weekend. So much for USD parity when it comes to Australian retailing.