Megasquirt users thread to discuss all things Squirty

[oldcorollas]

anyone up to date with current MS tech?

I'm running V2.2 PCB with MS1 and want to go to ignition as well. (and have spare V2.2 MS1's)
I had it set up with one of the beta test MSII daughterboards, which subsequently needed to be fixed (but i missed that boat )... but harness has those wires in it (VR trigger bosch ign unit, triggers MS, then MS triggering other bosch ign unit to coil)

I'll be going V3 MSII eventually for next engine, but wondering if i should bother getting another MSII daughterboard for current motor (on V2.2)....
OR
just set up another V2.2 specifically for MSnSextra....... (as an easy swap in...)

wading through the manuals atm to get the jumpers/connections needed, but a head start/opinion would be good.


methinks i won't be going MS3 any time soon....

[thechuckster]

Stick the v2.2 plus a MSII daughter board and run MS2/Extra firmware - easy way to run much better code without having to abandon your existing (and still working) motherboards.

I would also suggest you upgrade to larger cases and use one of jbperf's VR interface daughter boards - or make the circuit on a vero board and install in an external mini case. Makes dealing with VR sensor(s) a non-issue.

The MS3+MS3X looks very cool and well featured... but at a price.

[oldcorollas]

Thanks Chuck
i'd still need to buy a daughterboard = ??$130 and wait.... so i'm considering the MSnSe for the MS1 chip (of which i have spares). the current MSI runs well, but needs spark control...

is that the zero crossing detector? i think i made something up before, but is all a bit fuzzy in memory. would save using igniters
I'll dig up my inventory on the weekend..

would you recommend against MSnSe on an MSI chip?

edit: hmm, and go with the internal BIP373 coil driver?

edit2: is the JBperf VR thing the Zeal mod kit?

[thechuckster]

JBperf's kit is a dual VR card using LM1815s - assemble, hook up, go. no need to 'tune' the VR circuit. He has a few different mods: http://www.jbperf.com/

I ran MSnSe on my v2.2 board with the 1st series of ECUs. But the MS2/Extra firmware does some much smarter things.

I have a few of the older IGBTs (VB921?) in my collection somewhere, but most folks seem to use BIP373s or similar - either the onboard single IGBT or a bunch of them on an extension board.

[3jcelica]

I have used V2.2 MS1 with MS extra for years, recently switched to v3.57 MS2 running MS extra, I know there is more timing resolution and more injector open time resolution, the maps are bigger and a few other things but honestly I see no difference in engine running. Yeah Ms2 does some much smarter stuff but do you always need it?

BIB373 are good and cheap, they are hard to blow up as they have tempterature and current overload (nothing wrong with VB921 if you wire up correctly and use the correct signal)

The only thing the V2.2 doesn't have is a vr conditioner, sure you can go with zeal circuits (and if you have 2 vr signals like most newer toyotas it is good). I have used a 22re ignition module to do signal conditioning on a 36-1 wheel and found this to work really well, so have since used these modules (and there pretty cheap/free) for signal conditioning (I currently run v3.57 which has vr on board). Or just buy and edis setup for ~$70 from the US.

Anyway MS1 MS extra works very good I used it for about 3 years running 36-1 wasted spark.

Roger

[MWP]

Ill be buying a MS3 + MS3X shortly.
Will be quite a fun exercise getting it all working i think
Shame they dont sell the SMD main board as a kit, only the through-hole V3 board.

[3jcelica]

MWP,

I run the SMD board, but wish I had have got the V3 board with the proto area. You wont be disapointed with MS3+MS3X, I see no point in going MS3 without the extension board. The best thing I like about megsquirt is the software although I may be biased. Megtune is great and tunerstudio is awsome, particularly the way you can manipulate the maps, the tooth and sync logging, incorporated with megalog viewer in the one program. MS 1&2 extra have always have great features, MS3 bringing on the seqential fuel (MS extra 1&2 always had sequtial ignition) is great. You may need a map daddy to run that 5sgte I have recently upgraded mine so I can go over the standard 250kpa.

Roger

[oldcorollas]

ok, decided to got with MS2 daughterboard on the V2.2 PCB.
currently using a toyota igniter to fire coil from dizzies VR input.. igniter is attached to side of dizzy..
worth it to keep that (more wires) or change to a VR circuit in the MS (= longer VR wires = noise issues?)

or firing coil, the old go was to use a Bosch igniter (dumb or smart) with MS just triggering it...
better to go the BIP option and have MS fire the single coil directly??
better to remotely mount the BIP or in the case?

just tryin to nail down what to order

anyone else need anything (in sydney area..)

[3jcelica]

Oldcorollas,

I belive it is best to go back to the board with the VR sensor, really just a perosonal choice i.e. 1 less thing to go wrong, but have run both with absoultely no problems. If you are Still using the v2.2 board with ms2 dose this have a vrinput on the board? I didn't think ms2 daughter board had VR input or VR signal conditioning. Only problems I have ever has with noise is due to poor earths.

Ignitor or BIP, BIP are hard to kill, but they need to be mounted well so the back cannot ground (just use silcon pads as the mica sux) having said that you can drive the bosch no problems. I have had good success with the mitsibishi j121 three pin ignitors.

I tend to mount my BIP in the case and break out on a seperate 15 pin connector. Have a look at case ends as you should be able to get an end with provision for an extra connector.

Roger

[oldcorollas]

no, 2.2 doesn't have VR conditioner.. was tossing up just getting an LM1815, or getting the dual conditioner with extra outputs from DIYautotune... probably just get the chip and make up the V3 conditioner myself. (no need for heaps of outputs)

did you run shielded wire for VR to the board?

benefit of BIP is makes it a "1 box" solution, as opposed to worrying about another elec device in engine bay BIP = 1 wire out to ground coil only?

yup, space for connector.. probably use bigger plugs on a lead as opposed to another DB connector. no worries about current capacity then.

kicking myself i didn't incorporate extra wires in loom years ago... but at that time, MS2 hadn't ben invented

[3jcelica]

oldcorollas,

I would just keep running the toyota ignitor as a signal conditior by using the tacho out or coil output and then wire the tacho in as a hall effect. I find the toyota ignitor to do a really good job (even on a 36-1 wheel which is what my ms1 v2.2 is currently running on a fiat 124) and no need to tune the signal conditioner.

I am using the shielded wire that came with the megasquirt loom which is really good quality. It is a single core wire with a shield. It is wired with vr+ using the single core (wired to pin 24 I think) and vr- using the shield and wired back to single ground (pin 9 I think)

Yes the BIP is good, I run 4 for dual spark (twin spark 3tgte) hence the connector and I use 2 pins on the connector for each signal (current capacity). Provides a 1 wire out solution when wired inside the box (for 1 spark output you could probable use spare pins on the db37).

Roger

[The Witzl]

i would have the VR signal run all the way to one of these JBperf VR conditioning circuits in the cabin.
Just use some 2-core sheilded mic cable (jaycar), and earth it ONLY to the signal earth output from the MS v2.2 pcb... dont earth it at the dissy end as well.

IE: connect VR signal wire to VR signal pin on MS. Connect VR signal earth wire AND cable shield to earth pin on MS..... and at the dissy, just connect VR signal and VR earth wires, and leave the sheild unconnected at the dissy end.

Hope that makes sense.


FWIW - i tried to look at where Megasquirt was up to some time ago... and got completely lost. There is just too much info, and it's all poorly organised and strewn all over so many different sites..... it requires so much effort to just jump in and see what you can currently do with their product.

So i bought an Adaptronic.

[MWP]

FWIW - i tried to look at where Megasquirt was up to some time ago... and got completely lost. There is just too much info, and it's all poorly organised and strewn all over so many different sites..... it requires so much effort to just jump in and see what you can currently do with their product.

Yeah, its a big problem
I found the best way to work out what they can do is to use TunerStudio MS and look through the options that are available for a particular board/cpu.

[3jcelica]

What The Witzl suggests with using 2 core shielded wire is good practice as opposed to single core shielded wire which is supplied with the loom and shown in the megasquirt external connection diagrams.

I run single core shielded as that is what is supplied (shielding carries vr- signal) and works fine (i.e. no noise issues).

I find this the most usefull page of what can be done nowadays or what each version can do

http://www.ms3efi.com/feature-xref.html

ontop of this you then have MSextra with additional capabilities which can be found on

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html

and as MWP says take a look at tuner studio picking firmware/board options to really drive it home

Roger

[thechuckster]

I'm sticking with the MS2/Extra ECUs - I have several V2.x boards that will take the MS2 daughterboard ECUs, won't be running sequential ignition/spark on any motor & want to use Megatunix (which is a long way off supporting MS3).

Given that I work to a budget, I go for the standard case and put any extra stuff in another case, using a DB9 or larger connector to link the two up. Word of caution for folks going down this route. Dummy mount the case(s) in the car BEFORE making and installing looms to the engine bay. I had to do some ugly work on my main engines->ECU loom after forgetting I had to extend power, sensor and main earth lines to my 2nd box.

re: 2 core shielded wire, i went down this route with the sheath going to the main ECU earth.

While we're talking about wiring: any suggestions for specific brands/make of auto wiring that's not stupidly expensive? I find the standard 12V stuff sold by DSE, etc. and auto shops to be way too stiff/inflexible. I've occasionally encountered car looms with nice flexible stuff that has a strong but flexible sheath (good for attaching the outer crimp to) and a flexible core - but when buying wire, have not been able to find same. I have resorted to using trailer loom for hooking up lights, but to do headlights either needs pairing up wires or using two runs of loom for each front corner of the car.

Karl - you might have a suggestion here? I haven't bought wire thru jaycar.