Q's. re:4AGZE throttle body positioning/re-location

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Actually, with a bit of searching I found the guy in NZ that also set his 4agze up with a bigport intake & adapter plate.

It's a great build thread.

On page 4 he explains his set up.

http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/ae86/...r=asc/start=75

Although his ride is RWD & the more I look at it the more I realise that with the transverse AWD set up of an AE95, I'd just get jammed up trying to fit all that sh*t between the engine & the fire wall..

Gotta get out the measuring tape..

[mookschank]

3sgte on a 4agze.

http://forum.4age.org/index.php?/top...-body-upgrade/

[PrettyCoolWagon]

3sgte on a 4agze.

http://forum.4age.org/index.php?/top...-body-upgrade/

Yup! That's the one!

Thanks!

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Just stick a gen3 3SGTE throttle body on and leave it at that if you want to do it easy.
I get up to 12 PSI with an SC12, adjustable cam pulleys and the 3S throttle body with bigport cams and blacktop headers.

If you really want to stick an N/A manifold on, you will need to custom fabricate the top mounting point for the supercharger and plumb the intercooler straight into the manifold.
You will have to space the stock throttle body down pipe to the supercharger away from the manifold to fit, and while you're at it, the outlet pipe from the supercharger up to the intercooler could be replaced with a 2.25" pipe for better flow.
Add an SC14 in and use a water to air intercooler and you will have a very nice system.

It's what I'll be doing in the next few months to my GZE, so stay tuned.

If U do a build thread I'll definitely be staying tuned.

So.. U say "up to" (12 PSI) Does that mean you can't or wouldn't go any further than 12 PSI?
There's a guy Lars (trbowgn) about 4-5 years ago put a 4agze in same model as mine (AE95) & swapped the sc for a T3 turbo,running at 12 PSI, making 130kw at all 4 wheels.

http://www.alltracwagon.net/forum/m-1289736424/

How would the set up you've described compare to his set up?

I know there'd be a lot of pipe work involved..

[TERRA Operative]

12PSI is the max for long term use and 14.7PSI max for short term use, according to the manufacturers specs. It's actually a boost ratios of 1.8 and 2.0 respectively. (Minus 1 then times by atmospheric pressure, or 14.7).

I only could get 12PSI because it was a limitation of the pulleys, pipework, etc etc.


I wouldn't have a clue about the turbo setup. I'm a supercharger fanboy, so have no idea about turbos and other such black magic.
For your use, I would stick with a supercharger to keep the boost happening at low RPM while crawling etc.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

12PSI is the max for long term use and 14.7PSI max for short term use, according to the manufacturers specs. It's actually a boost ratios of 1.8 and 2.0 respectively. (Minus 1 then times by atmospheric pressure, or 14.7).

I only could get 12PSI because it was a limitation of the pulleys, pipework, etc etc.


I wouldn't have a clue about the turbo setup. I'm a supercharger fanboy, so have no idea about turbos and other such black magic.
For your use, I would stick with a supercharger to keep the boost happening at low RPM while crawling etc.

...."& other such magic!" ha! you're a comic genius as well as a 4A sexpert.

Yeah, I emailed Lars about 18months ago & explained the purpose of my vehicle & he advised I keep it sc'd as well. I think being a bigport, she'll rip at high speeds anyway.

I need to remind myself I'm building an all-purpose vehicle not a deadset speed demon.
It's easy around you racers & street guys to get caught up in the need for power n speed.
It IS exciting stuff tho!

So maybe I could do away with the early GE bigport intake I bought..
I know the sc gives the low down torque - I'm just trying to come up with a piping system that gives some torque in the upper range as well.


I got some outta the box ideas again that I'd like to put out there..
Please bear with me as I try to explain what's in my head..

You know how everyone always talks about flow restriction?

For example: your thread T-O about upping the internal diameter on a GZE throttle body to the larger 3S GTE throttle body.

I was researching front mount intercoolers & one custom intercooler manufacturer/fitter's response was that many people think bigger is better but actually suffer a lag when the air 'drops' into such a large chamber.

Now Terra Op' I know you're gonna say "water to air" but I just aint heading that way on my first build so let's stay on track.

With the drop in pressure experienced by using a large front mount intercooler & other reputable info around power torque & velocity, like motoman's high velocity porting technique. (PLEASE TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT WEB LINK)

http://www.mototuneusa.com/homework.htm

I've been wondering about a number of things like:

Say I used a combo pulley set up - overdriving for more boost & underdriving the water etc. If I then started out a little oversized with the piping before the slightly larger than stock front mount intercooler to keep the temps low & then came out on the other side with a more standard pipe size... & finished off by doing the 'motoman' velocity porting.

Wouldn't that help maintain good pressure & temperatures throughout the air induction system & make my big port behave a little more like a small port?

Hope I've made sense..

[PrettyCoolWagon]

So basically it's a small & gradual tapering down of pipe size from oversize back to standard to maintain pressure as a way of compensating for pressure lost due to the length of the pipes & larger intercooler.

[Casey-G]

lol black magic..

Terra is the one to listen to, he's done a shitton of research on the sc12 and 4agze respectively... i mean.. 12psi with stock (crank)pulleys!


cusco pully(w/timing pointer), abv and headers are still waiting for a new home...

[TERRA Operative]

Add some adjustable cam pulleys and you'll see some gains by closing the overlap.

Tapering the pipe is a good idea to keep boost up, as the intake charge will shrink as it cools. Just be sure not to make it too small that it creates a restriction. I wouldn't go smaller than the throttle body.

You have to accurately size the intercooler too. I can help with that, too small and it won't cool properly, too big and you'll end up with excessive pressure drop and an intercooler that's a pain to fit.

Also, with a longer intake, you will have to watch out for a hunting idle etc.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

Add some adjustable cam pulleys and you'll see some gains by closing the overlap.

Tapering the pipe is a good idea to keep boost up, as the intake charge will shrink as it cools. Just be sure not to make it too small that it creates a restriction. I wouldn't go smaller than the throttle body.

You have to accurately size the intercooler too. I can help with that, too small and it won't cool properly, too big and you'll end up with excessive pressure drop and an intercooler that's a pain to fit.

Also, with a longer intake, you will have to watch out for a hunting idle etc.

Excellent!! - so I'm not crazy LOL!!!!! The concept of tapering has some merit.
Of course I wouldn't go smaller than the throttle body that's the whole idea of starting oversized.

Yep - definitely getting adjustable cams - so I'll pick your brains when the time comes about how to overlap.
I remember you saying by... (I think) retarding the intake?? & advancing the exhaust?? (or was it the other way around?)
I'd get a power increase but idle rough - Would that also contribute to hunting for idle?

I'm sure I'll find my sweet spot with the adjustable cams when the time comes.

Re: intercoolers.. - Yeah Is there any kinda basic maths formula to do with charged air, pipe size & length that can help determine what size front mount intercooler is needed?

[TERRA Operative]

Advance intake, retard exhaust. only around 3 degrees max is needed for each, play around to see what works for you. And don't forget top reset base timing if you play with the exhaust cam!

I'll find the formulas, but it works on boost ratio (which gives you temperature rise), cross sectional area you can fit, total airflow, etc, etc.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

I don't know what "top reset base timing" means but..don't worry it's gonna be a while yet till I'm fiddling with the cams..

Gotta hit th hay.

Thanks mate

[TERRA Operative]

Ah, I meant 'don't forget to reset base timing' (typo)
You have to set the base timing when you adjust the exhaust cam as the distributor/cas runs off it. It's the normal procedure of shorting pins Te1 and E1 in the diagnostic connector and rotating the distributor to the required degrees of advance, while measuring it with a timing light shining onto the crank to see the marks.
I usually set the 4AGZE to 12 degrees and run 98 octane (BP Ultimate works well in these engines).

[PrettyCoolWagon]

I'm out of my depth.. I'm guessing there's some adjustable pins (Te1 & E1) on the ECU.

By the way, I'm also using a HKS piggy back set up.

You said "rotating the distributor" but I'm using DLI

Will keep BP 98 Octane in mind

[TERRA Operative]

distributor, crank angle sensor (cas), same difference. It's the thing sticking out of the head above the left side of the exhaust manifold.