4AGZE - EA Falcon Pulley Mod

[Ben Wilson]

I know the charger i put on the old red one was like that, and it had a large build up of dust around it, like brake/clutch dust

A bit like this?

[nick.parker]

a Roots SC shouldnt produce much heat when it isnt producing positive pressure as there is no internal compression unlike a twinscrew.

Thats what I used to think too. But I learn't otherwise. I've done a lot of data logging on my SC14 setup, and have a high response intake temp sensor (GM sensor bud in cage type) etc. I frequently log half hour drives at 10 samples per second (mainly for wideband / MAP / RPM data stuff to improve my VE maps) but of pretty much everything inside my ECU and go over them. The SC produces plenty of heat when it is engaged even just driving under vacuum conditions.

Cheers, Nick

[feral4mr2]

good to hear you've got the pulley on, and even better to hear that engine is still running strong.

[inertia]

Bit of a side question. My charger engages with a rattle which used to last until 2.5k RPM and now lasts till 3k RPM... when this rattle is occuring the boost is generally lower at 4-6psi then when the rattle goes away it's solid 10-12psi...

Does this = dying charger or dying clutch mechanism?

Can it be replaced without removing the charger in FWD form?

[TooF]

the clutch cannot be removed without removing the charger.. and if you did.. good bloody luck. having looked at my mates fwd GTZ i thinkitd be a nightmare to remove the charger at all the master cyl's get in the way to lift it out the top eaisly. im sure its possible just a bucket worse then in the mr2.

is there enogh tension on the belt ?

[TooF]

Thats what I used to think too. But I learn't otherwise. I've done a lot of data logging on my SC14 setup, and have a high response intake temp sensor (GM sensor bud in cage type) etc. I frequently log half hour drives at 10 samples per second (mainly for wideband / MAP / RPM data stuff to improve my VE maps) but of pretty much everything inside my ECU and go over them. The SC produces plenty of heat when it is engaged even just driving under vacuum conditions.

Cheers, Nick

just a couple of questions relating to this....

not wanting to doubt what your saying but just trying to check if it fully applies to this situation.

what recirculation valve are you running ?

and most importantly... ? your SC is pre throttle plate right ? hence it would be able to get a full supply of air all the time and produce positive pressure between the outlet and the throttle plate (there would still be vaccuum betwene throttle and valves when the throttle plate was closed) ? if there was the potential to produce positive pressure between the outlet of the SC and the next restriction (standard gze - valves, your case throttle) assuming there wasnt a recirculation valve to equalise pressure ?

please correct me if im misunderstanding something.

[GUN METAL]

Toof,

Good work mate, bonus points for you

I think i can understand what Nick is saying and its difficult to argue with what he has actually measured but i think the deifferences may lay in the vastly different set up Nick is running from stock.

When i was playing around with the motec on mine we tried running the SC permanently and i noted exactly what you were saying. We elected not to do it that way as idle was an issue but noting i am not running an idle motor.

So my question is how does it idle and what boost is it making if any at idle ??, just out of curiosity

[TooF]

at idle i have a nice steady 20InHg... as expected... remember if there is no air getting to the charger then it cant move more air hence no boost.. remember boost is only an excess of air unable to travel into the given space. so if the charger is post throttle then when the throttle is closed it wont get sufficent air to actually produce boost.

id like it if nick can clear up what recirculation/throttle setup he is using as this gives me a better idea as far as heat/pressure build up.


im hvaing absolutly no idle issues. she runs just like it did before there is a bit of bearing rattle from the charger but htink thats the shagged bearings in the charger. as this charger is noticably lounder then my old one. you can hear a bit of charger noise at idle but mostly just the air sucking back though the ABV. other then that it runs and drives like normal.. just quicker.

[GUN METAL]

Sweet, that all makes sense

Edit, i am going to riverwood motorsport Saturday to put on the new rotors, while there we are going to open up the motec for a bit of experimentation / data log checking so if i have time i will give it another lash with running the Sc permanently again

[TooF]

again if you want to have the hharger running all the time you *WILL* need a recirculation valve of some flavour wether it be the facotry abv or something else.otherwise you will amost certinaly have idle and heat issues.

[nick.parker]

Howdy,
I am running a Magnusson supercharger bypass throttle valve. (I think its 1.5" blade).
The throttle is pre SC. I might whack an additional thermocouple in this weekend and get some real numbers for SC outlet temp.
Cheers, Nick

[TooF]

hmmm ok then so you have a dencet recirculation valve... plus the throttle before the charger.... hmmm ill have to have a better look at the outlet temps. from a quick glance they felt ok...


hehe i could say bugger emissions vent it straight to atmosphere lol... not that im actually going to.

[inertia]

Ok, Looks like either my S/C clutch is on the way out, there's a fair rattle/chatter when it engages and a fair rattle when the s/c is disengages/revs down with engine (say during a gearchange), though slight possibility it is a charger bearing... though the oil is still 100% clean and full since we put it in 10,000k's ago...

Given that chargers seem rare, I've been told to make it just run permanently... now, I'm running stock ecu and the car usually runs lean down low in the rpm range, specially when the charger kicks in down low on a moderately warm day... is it dangerous to run the charger all the time or will the ecu know via map sensor that it's boosting so will accomodate even though it thinks the s/c is off?

What exactly needs to be welded? I already have a nevo 175mm, so will leave the s/c pulley standard.

We're going to try raise/lower engine to get the pulley off lol. we'll see... and report back what works...

I figure if I have to take the charger off I may aswell find one in good condition and change it over...

Thanks, sorry for teh semi hijack.

[nick.parker]

Find another charger! They are not rare. Do not run the SC all the time, I experimented with this and found that the air is heated even under vacuum conditions, so your IC will be heatsoaked before you even use the throttle in anger. This is compounded because under cruising around slowly conditions theres not much cooling air flow through the IC. The info I have given may sound strange, but I am not a punk delivering hear-say. I have done a bit of datalogging with my custom managed SC14 supercharger setup and this is what I found.....

Cheers, Nick

[inertia]

It sounds correct. I imagine the intercooler as heatsink rather than a pure radiator...

Well, if anyone knows where a nice good condition map sensor charger is located let me know . What are they worth? 200-250?

Cheers,

Inny