Steering question - odd feel to it.

**TurboRA28** · 03-05-2006, 12:17 PM

Hey all, i've just helped a mate design a custom rack n pinion setup for his car (not toyota, but still

). There is an odd problem with it though i'm hoping someone might be able to shed some light on.

Everything appears to be right from my somewhat limited knowledge of it all. The rack sits in a perfect paralelogram with the control arms and the inner & outer pivot points of the rack and the control arms. So bump steer is non-existant.

The rack sits infront of the outer tie rod ends, and at full lock it is inline with the outer ends, so ackerman has to be close to a factory setup.

It is running 5 deg of castor on the left wheel, 4.5 on the right.

5 deg camber on the left wheel, 4.5 on the right. - yes lots of camber it's seeing a lot of track work.

2mm toe in on each wheel (will see below why so much)

The problem is... the first say 10 - 20 degrees turn of the steering wheel, the car just wants to shoot off in that direction a large amount, so its like the first part of the turn is very exagerated and sensitive. After that, it feels ok and quite linier. Almost like there is heaps of toe out.

We are running quite a bit of toe in to try and get rid of this feeling not sure if its worth trying more toe in but I would have thought 2mm would be enough n each wheel.

I've never driven a car with 5 deg neg camber before.. Does this give this feeling? Or do we have some steering geometry problem here?

Thanks
Joel

**takai** · 03-05-2006, 12:31 PM

5deg of neg camber wont give those sort of feels though. What you describe i would normally put down to lots of toe out.
One thing to look at is how it handles at high speed. When my 86 had 4mm of toe out (overall) it was very shaky at anything over about 80km/h and would skip around lots. Nice and dicey on public roads.

**-GT-** · 03-05-2006, 12:42 PM

Yeah, i'm with chris on this one, i was thinking excessive toe out would feel like that, but i guess that's why you've tried toe-ing in? I had 20.xx mm of toe out when i got my alignment on sat, was diving everywhere, very sketchy in the damp. (susp had been in and out several times fixing an issue, hadn't been driving it like that! Only taking it to workshop)

Also, -5 deg camber i thought if anything would've been a little sluggish on initial turn in until the weight shifted, assuming you're testing it on the road, with street tyres? Not quite like track conditions its set for?

**takai** · 03-05-2006, 01:19 PM

5deg neg isnt that bad on initial turn in, but as you say it is slightly sluggish. That said, the wheel feel is somewhat lighter due to the slightly smaller contact patch.

P.s. its somewhat freaky being responded to by name

not that i mind at all

**-GT-** · 03-05-2006, 01:26 PM

Sorry, guess i've just picked it up around the place, you use it occasionally don't you? I've also kept up on the sprinter build up, and the sx before, who knows. I tend to refer to people by name round here if i know it.

Garth

**takai** · 03-05-2006, 01:30 PM

Yeah, i understand, no-one has referred to me by name before, i dont mind, but the first time is always strange.
Same as i was walking down the street in Box Hill once and some random guy came up to me and started talking about Sparky. Was completely freaky.

Anyway, this is way OT.

**-GT-** · 03-05-2006, 01:39 PM

Yeah. back to joel, everything alignment-wise sounds ok, i can't see what could be causing it. My steering geometry theory is a little rusty, and experience pretty limited, but nothing is jumping at me from there.

Is it really severe? ie too much to be precise and smooth in car placement? And it's only just as you come off centre, its fine when its turning? It sounds like just really good turn in, is it possible its just a drastic improvement over how it was before? Maybe some time getting used to it might help.

Is this the 75 lancer? Anything else changed at the same time? ie new tyres - stiffer sidewalls would feel different, i'm kinda dissappointed with my new tyres in this area.

**TurboRA28** · 03-05-2006, 01:40 PM

Yeah you guys are right, feels like a car with too much toe out. Unsure what it feels like at higher speeds. I guess we can try adding more toe in to the existing 4mm (overall) toe in.

It has good quality toyo street tyres on it.

Good to know its not the camber then making it feel that way. One thing to eliminate.

**TurboRA28** · 03-05-2006, 01:51 PM

It is pretty severe, i reckon around a track it might not be so bad but just everyday driving, lane changes, etc are not that friendly due to it.

Like you say, it just has amazing turn in.. Never thought you could have too much ha but in this case it does.

Thats right it is only just as you come off centre, once you are already steering into the corner and make further corrections it feels normal.

It is the Lancer, and until last night I hadn't driven it since the r&p and IRS upgrade. But ever since it has been completed Mike's been picking my brain about how the steering doesn't feel right. Last night I had a drive in it and yeah definately not your normal steering feel.

He'll run it down at wakefield anyway and try to get more of a feel for it on the track.