Air con for my ae82 with 20v

[20inch]

Hi guys
got my hands on a ae82 with 20v silvertop conversion
it has no air con. What is a complete list of things required to convert it to have AIR CON

I take it going to a wreckers and getting the air con set up from a regular ae82 with carby motor etc is not going to work

Any help appreciated and any contacts of anybody selling what i need - also appreciated

Dane

[frostyadonis]

did your ae82 originally come out with air con?
if it did then youre half way home, if not it will be a huge pita, but still doable

[20inch]

sadly it did not

[frostyadonis]

and on the ae82 twin cams the aircon and the power steering work off one belt. adjustable via an idler pulley.
so this may cause more headaches, seeing you don't have power steering either (guessing)

[banana_socks]

Depends how dedicated you are. I'd probably consider it too much of a pain, but it should be possible.

I'd definitely use stock AE82 aircon parts. That way all the piping and coils, etc will fit without modification. The trickier part will be mounting and running the compressor. I'm not familiar with the differences between models, but hopefully it could use stock mounts. Sorting out belts should be fairly straightforward provided it all lines up.

So go find an 82 with aircon at the wreckers, and remove every component of the system (including under dash). If you think you can still be bothered putting it back together in your car, then go for it.

[fixeruperer]

hardest part is fitting the compressor to the engine, after that all you need is some lines from the compressor to standard ae82 a/c stuff.
pretty much go to a wreckers (or find a cheap wreck (will be cheaper)) and rape all the a/c stuff:
engine bay lines including dryer and hi/lo switches.
a/c condenser and fans.
under dash evaporator and control unit. (take the whole a/c setup from under the dash and bolt it in your.

i think the wiring is already their for a/c stuff, if not do some wiring or send it to a elecy.


a/c is awesome, one day i may put it back in my ae86, but i rather fit a blower there instead of an a/c compressor haha.

[Hiro]

and on the ae82 twin cams the aircon and the power steering work off one belt. adjustable via an idler pulley.
so this may cause more headaches, seeing you don't have power steering either (guessing)

Both power steering and air-con were separate options on the Twincam, so it is possible to find air-con-only idler pulleys (they are the opposite to the air-con+p/s pulleys), the main problem is that most Twincams had the power steering and air-con option boxes ticked so the lower-spec ones are quite hard to find.

Even rarer is a Twincam with neither power steering nor air-con, but they do exist....

[JP]

find a twincam with powersteering, grab the entire setup from the car and retrofit it to your car. Grab the compressor mounting bracket off the 16V and use that to mount the compressor to the 20V. Then all the lines etc bolt up with no need for custom stuff.

[20inch]

Just had a wrecker quote me $250 for a complete air con setup
he said even though the power steer runs off the same belt, that we can just use a shorter belt...
Does this sound plausible guys? If so ill probably buy it all!
Dane

[20inch]

ok so im compiling a list of stuff i need
so far:

Dash switches
engine bay lines including dryer and hi/lo switches.
a/c condenser and fans.
under dash evaporator and control unit.
Compressor
Compressor mount bracket

Air con only idler pulley ?

Anyone else care to add anything?

the car hes pulling it off had power steering too - but parts of that power steer system have been removed so im gonna just fit the A/C components, with a shorter belt ?

[Rhyno]

Hi 20inch,

You seem to have most of the stuff you need on your list already just though I might add that you should use a new filter drier, as this is the shit catcher of the refrigeration system, and it is always wise to change them

Also if the condensor/fan comes with a shroud/cowl, make sure you get that and fit it too.

And use the bracket you got and just go to repco, look up the part number you require and try it. If its to long or short take it back tell them how much you reckon it needs to be adjusted and try again.

Best of luck mate!

[Z2TT]

Nice project, I'm doing the same right now on a Nissan Pulsar..... Not a Toyota but still I'll give you some advice on things to consider, very general/broad but still useful.

1. Parts needed :

- Compressor with correct Bracket/Idler setup to suit the car
- All pipes and Hoses including mounting/securing clamps/brackets
- Condenser, Including mounting equipment and fans
- Evaporator + Any required brackets if needed.
- Receiver/drier + Bracket.
- Pressure Switches.
- A/C Wiring Loom.
- Control switches.
- Thermal cutout switch many cars use, hooked to evaporator.

Removal :

It can get confusing sometimes so it's good to mark all your equipment with a marker and then write down on a piece of paper what came from where. Some of the pipe joints can be seized extremely hard, so careful not to bend the pipes. Tape the ends of the hoses as soon as you remove them, block ends on compressor.

Preparation/Inspection :

Inspect all components, drain all components of as much as oil as you can. Clean all the old leaves/gunk off the evaporator as best as you can, remove the housing and thoroughly clean it all, but before you do so, check for oil around evaporator core, this indicates either a core leak or leaky o-rings around expansion valve.

Turn the compressor clutch while placing your finger on the suction port (Larger port), it should create good suction, check the pulley. Drain the oil from the compressor, you should be able to drain about 30-70ml (Depends on Compressor/System), but if you only drain a very small amount, the the system has been running on low oil, and possibly losing oil too from somewhere.

Clean the condenser outside to get rid of built up grime and bugs, also clean it internally with an appropriate flushing agent if you want to, with something like Thinners or an A/C Flush agent which might probably work better.

It's a good idea to replace the Expansion valve too if you want.

Installation -

Put the evaporator in with plugs still blocked off, reducing chance of getting dirt in when poking the ports through the dash, Install the rest of the components, you may need to have your front bumper off to help with condenser install. Use new o-rings that can be bought from places like Ashdown/Ingram, HNBR type which is specified for Auto A/C Systems. Be sure to clean the sealing surfaces of any old buildup or gunk to allow o-rings to seal better.

Put about 70ml of new oil in the compressor, will need to slowly turn the clutch as you poor oil to help it get in. Use Synthetic PAO Oil such as Ariazone Automotive AA1, or ROC Oil. They are avaliable in different viciousness, find out which viscosity oil your compressor model requires and use the closest match avaliable for best protection and efficiency. Put the rest of the oil specified for the system in a pipe after the compressor, you will have to compensate for any oil left in the system such as in the evaporator as too much oil will decrease efficiency.

Once everything is together, turn the compressor clutch several times to reduce the chance of oil slugging (clear the ports of oil). You can insulate low pressure side pipes to increase system efficiency.

Remember to install a new receiver/drier, it's best recommended to do this shortly before the regas, so you could just have the pipes blocked off, and put the new receiver in shortly before the regas is done

Electrics :

Some cars have their own A/C Wiring loom with relays on it, in that case you just use it, and it plugs into the rest of your cars wiring loom at some point to obtain power, ground, and links it to the ECU Wires for idle up and reverse gear A/C Activate etc. If it's not plug and play or if it's all integrated into the main loom and not removable then you can get a few relays and switches and wire it all up yourself, here is a suitable way to have it wired up if you have to do it yourself, it is not something you have to bring to an Auto elec to do unless your not confident, fairly simple :

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9057/acwire.png

Just keep in mind, sensibly sized wires for the amperage draw of the A/C Clutch and Condenser Fan, and of course relays rated for it. Once this is done you have to figure out how to give a signal to the ECU for A/C Idle up, you need to know whether it's ground or power to the ECU on your car, and then just splice a wire from your A/C Wiring and run to the ECU.

Once that is all done you need to get a good vacuum pulled on it, Usually at least half an hour, some shops are lazy and will just put the gas straight in. The choice of gas is yours, pretty much today you can either get R134a or Hydrocarbon mix (R290/R600a) put in, of which Hychill are a manufacturer of the latter.

If you want better Efficiency and Performance - Hychill.
If you want non flammability - R134a.

[Rhyno]

Hi Z2TT,

you hit the nail pretty much dead on the head, just wanted to clarify some issues.

Remember to install a new receiver/drier, it's best recommended to do this shortly before the regas, so you could just have the pipes blocked off, and put the new receiver in shortly before the regas is done

If you want better Efficiency and Performance - Hychill.
If you want non flammability - R134a.

As the oil in the system are usually hydroscopic (they absorb moisture) and the system is senisitive to air it is very important to minimise the contact time the filter/drier has with the system, as from the moment the seals on the filter/drier are broken, it will begin to absorb moisture from the air, easier than the oil in the system. Similar to sacrafical annodes in a saltwater circuit.

Now in a "perfect world" idealy you would want to install everything in place, then add oil to the compressor, then immediately fit the filter/drier and have the system pressure tested with dry nitrogen (to absorb moisture that may be in the system while conducting a leak test) for an hour, then if no leaks present, drop the pressure out (slowly so you don't get oil shooting everywhere! ) and whack the system immediatly on a vacuum pump down to 250 micron's.

Unfortantly we have far from an ideal set up in most cars, as sometimes the oil fill plug on the compressor can not be accessed once installed. So just install the comp and drier as close to last as possible, prefable right before you drive to the AC shop. A little moisture is ok, but not excessive amounts.

In regards to the refrigerant choice, R134a IS flamable, under the right conditions. Hychill R12 replacements is good stuff, as well as SP34E, but I would not use SP34E if you already have high head pressure's/problems with condensing refrigerant, as this will increase with this gas, but so will efficency.

King Regards,

Rhyno

[Z2TT]

You can use Synthetic oils that are non hygroscopic, plus better.

R134a is Probably flammable when mixed with PAG Oils.... other than that i'm taking it it's flammability is very low.

What is SP43E made up of, cant find any information on it, do they even make it anymore?

Pressure testing im sort of skeptical on it, i think most places ussually use 300 PSI, that might create leaks in some evaporators that never see those pressures under working conditions, shouldn't micron guage reading be sensitive enough to tell if there's leaks?

Thing is i've just seen so many cars with leaky evaporators, few people i've talked with don't recommend using high pressures for leak testing.

[Rhyno]

Yeah it ain't too flamable, but try and weld on the system with (the gas reclaimed) refrigerant still boiling out of the oil and you can get some fun. Got told of a story where some blokes where working on a Kia Rio last week and where trying to change the engine without disconnecting the AC system, they earthed out the condensor on the positive on the battery = F$%ING BOOM! A 1 meter flamethrower and two very lucky mechanics, got away with minor electrical damage.

Hmmn in regards to SP34E, i cant find a lot on it on the net either. I know its a direct drop replacement for R12, same oil and lines and oil, just higher head pressures. May have stop being sold.

I know i should write this in the AC thread, I may repost this there.

As you have mentioned in that thread, a lot of auto ac shops only have a vauge idea of what they are trying to acheive, and have educated the general public into believing that "Air cons run on gas, and she just needs a top up". To be clear a refrigeration or airconditioning system should only require refrigerant being put back into due to neccesary work where the refrigerant had to be removed or there was a leak that was repaired.

Any system with a thermal expansion valve (TXV) over time will equalise, as the TXV valve will allow refrigerant to pass through so when the system restarts it doesn't need to push against full discharge pressure to get away. You can still have liquid and vapour in diffferent parts of the system, and their are exceptions but this is correct as a generalisation. So you will get pressures inside your evaporator that are up near 300 psi which is 2068.42 kpa (i work in kpa) after some time, espically on a hot 30+ degrees day.

My point is that as a ac shop it is more profitabile and acceptable to just regas a leaky system which will keep buissness coming back and the customer walking away happy their AC is cold for 3 months, and they only had to pay$150, instead of $500+ for full pressure test, and leak repair and regas.

It is good practice to pressure test as triptek has mentioned, as it will identify leaks helping to prevent money and time being wasted, at a pressure at least equal to the pressure the refrigerant will put on the system.

Vacuuming checking does work but how the hell do you determine where the leak is? Feel all over? Wait for some soapy water to get sucked in then have dry the system out, plus repair the leak? A vac test is ment to confirm your pressure test, and that you have removed contaminants from the system.

Why is it that people have told you not to test evaps espically if their leaking? I know in domestic fridges you shouldnt test past 500 kpa as the evap will explode, but I know thats not the case on cars. Surely if your evap is leaking gas into a closed cabin (which can cause suffocation btw) you would wanted it tested to ensure its fixed? Very interested in your answer.

Sorry to block up your thread 20 inch.

Also there are good ac shops out there, not are all bad