Sequential shifter conversions??

[lumpy]

There was reasonable article about the lkeya shifter in Zoom or HPI a few years ago - they fitted it to a 200SX. Looked very bulky and likely to break in any number of places - also came with a LED screen to show what gear you are in (in case you forgot ). The biggest problem they found (and on obvious one to me) is that you fit it to a gearbox that isn't designed for sequential operation. Thus your shifts aren't much faster (but probably a bit harder) than using the H-pattern shifter.

[AE86slut]

There was reasonable article about the lkeya shifter in Zoom or HPI a few years ago - they fitted it to a 200SX. Looked very bulky and likely to break in any number of places - also came with a LED screen to show what gear you are in (in case you forgot ). The biggest problem they found (and on obvious one to me) is that you fit it to a gearbox that isn't designed for sequential operation. Thus your shifts aren't much faster (but probably a bit harder) than using the H-pattern shifter.

Zoom issue 52 has a full article on it. As we all know, though, most of the time it's not the shifter mechanism that slows shifts down, it's the synchros etc themselves. Therefore, putting one on won't necessarily result in Holinger-esque cog-swapping.
Still, it's pretty cool nonetheless. Id have one.

[oldcorollas]

thats the thing... i wasn't thinking about a proper sequential dogbox, just something to aid the driving experience.
in some ways it is a bit of a wank... btu then again... not having to think which way to move gear lever if you are having a high speed moment on the track... that sort of thing.... and for me it is more of a design exercise than a "OMG i HAVE to have one"...

to be honest, it looks like changing a W box to a proper drum shifted sequential box is not impossible... just takes more machining skills/time/equipment than i have

but if anyone was seriously interested, it looks possible.

the problem i have with air/solenoid activated change is the speed and harshness. synchro boxes just don't shift as fast as a dogbox...

anyway

if anyone has any technical input.. more than welcome...
and if anyone has a W or T box currently dissasembled, many pictures from differetn angles woud be highly appreciated

[lumpy]

[QUOTE=oldcorollas]thats the thing... i wasn't thinking about a proper sequential dogbox, just something to aid the driving experience.
in some ways it is a bit of a wank... btu then again... not having to think which way to move gear lever if you are having a high speed moment on the track... that sort of thing.... /QUOTE]

Dunno...from that perspective it sounds more like those grains that can be boiled, steamed or fried and are usually eaten with soy sauce

I suspect that on the track/spirited driving you don't think that much about the shift - it's just a reflex action. I'd like to see the difference in times achieved by changing from h-pattern to semi-sequnetial (assuming all else is equal within the box).

[kingmick]

i designed a system for a rolla FWD box that uses solinoids to move selector levers on box, just using diffrent micro switch for each gear. i never got around to doing it but i have the plans somewere. prob an easy way to to it on a external linkage box!
micro switch cuts ignition for a second for shifts!
no hard to do just fiddley. be an easy way to do sequential.

[Hen]

I vote for 3 servo driven pistons. One for each selector fork in a W/T box. Have a lever for up/down shift and a bit of electronics to control the servos. You can interlock their movements and limit force to prevent damage. The servos would be able to provide enough force and speed nowadays.

And you could integrate it into ignition control to allow full throttle shifts.

However you still run into the problem of the synchros limiting shift speed.

Hen

Oh, and doing this properly as a one-off for under $3k could well be a bit optimistic.

[wilbo666]

I vote for 3 servo driven pistons. One for each selector fork in a W/T box. Have a lever for up/down shift and a bit of electronics to control the servos. You can interlock their movements and limit force to prevent damage. The servos would be able to provide enough force and speed nowadays.

And you could integrate it into ignition control to allow full throttle shifts.

However you still run into the problem of the synchros limiting shift speed.

Hen

Oh, and doing this properly as a one-off for under $3k could well be a bit optimistic.

That sounds like the best idea! Mod the rear extension housing to fit the bits you need

I reckon that could well be done for under $3k (parts)

Do it

Cheers
Wilbo

[Hen]

My day job (from which I am procrastinating right now) involves machine retrofits involving some bits like this, and the parts we deal with are horrendously expensive. Though there could well be cheaper options out there.

However writing a complete system to control it (including force/current control) from scratch is a big ask. Some of the more knowledgable may be able to suggest cheap, off-the-shelf bits for such a system.

Hen

[ed]

jza80 w58 box with rear mounted cabntilever shifter pivot and shaft could work with this!

[ed]

mick whats the details on thsi renegade stuff?

cheers
ed

[oldcorollas]

it's Renegate. only for side shifters
http://www.renagate.com/


as far as retrofits, there is this one for a Mini box.. i am not sure how it looks originally, but if a similar drum could be incorporated into the extension housing or rear of the main housing, it could work.

and comment

03/12/2004 13:08:09
Well i can tell you quite a bit about this gearbox and its origins as it was me that had it designed.

It is a 4 speed fully sequential. The sequencer fits inside the box and therefore requires very little modification to the car itself. It was designed by a guy called George Wrighton who has worked on many high spec products including F1 gearboxes. The gear kit is a purpose designed set and hopefullt in the future should have various interchangeable ratios. It can be fitted with a full paddle shift or a power shifter for full throttle clutchless upshifts.

They are being built by MBE and marketed through Minispeed.

Dave.

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/i...?p=vt&tid=3114

and link to exploded diagram of original mini gearbox http://www.minimotors.com/journey/fi...cs/gearbox.gif

[oldcorollas]

adding pics as i find nice ones
bike mechanisms....
many pics from http://www.dansmc.com/gearshifters.htm

http://www.dansmc.com/shiftdrum&forks.jpg

http://www.dansmc.com/shaft_shifter2.jpg
ducati selector mechanism (ratchet mech)
http://www.usq.edu.au/users/grantd/m...ages/Tav02.gif

shift forms on drum with groves under
http://www.dansmc.com/drum_shifter1.jpg

shifter pawl mech (easy to adapt)
http://www.dansmc.com/shifter_pawl3.jpg
http://www.dansmc.com/pawl_adjust2.jpg
http://www.dansmc.com/kaw_shifter1.jpg

and another nifty one.. http://www.ravensroads.com/xv1000/20..._leftcover.php

everything is nifty today
video of Aprilia ratchet mech working.. convincing? must work i guess...

[oldcorollas]

finally a manual for a sequential box! excellent exploded diagrams of.... everything!
http://www.mlcmotorsports.com/files/...box_Manual.pdf

annnnnnd
Hewland transaxle manual!!
they use same mechanism as the bikes.. almost identical...

and another hewland box.. cross-section of the ratchet

and for good measure Mr Hewlands ideas on successful gearchanging..

[MWP]

finally a manual for a sequential box! excellent exploded diagrams of.... everything!
http://www.mlcmotorsports.com/files/...box_Manual.pdf

Wow!
I wish i could find Toyota manuals that looked like that!

[1jzracing]

I've DREAMED of such a unit for years having busted replaced rebuilt and modified my w58many times .... now fitted with a rather brutal c.r. dog ring gear set a sequential shifter would be glorious thing!!

there is an australian made one called RENEGADE. they make them for top loaders, super t10's etc. they go for around $635 and are made well. you might be able to make them work on toyota boxes, i havnt had a look at one but ive sold around 20 of them. they are heavy duty.

the problem there is those boxes are external shifted making it a snack with a nice pair of linkages to work with so adapting it to a supra style box is near imposable

if anyone finds something LET ME KNOW!!