4age Crank Info for 4agte usage

[dangdang]

Gday,

Im currently building a 4agte for my ae82 Twincam. I brought what was a rebuilt 4agze block already fitted with Aries 8.0 forged pistons, spool rods, and its a seven rib with oil squirters. All good, then whilst I was checking the mains with plastiguage I found that the crank has been ground undersize and therefore has thicker "standard" type shells, I figure I really need to run the acl grooved "race" type as I will be heading north of 20 psi but these are not available in the shell thicknesses this ground crank requires.
My question is what is the best crank to source, and are GZE and GE late, large journal cranks the same?
I've read conflicting info in regards to the composition of GE and GZE cranks and whether they are actually forged or not.
My machinist here in Tas seems to think we might have to source from Japan as we are having real trouble finding any GE crank, if so I want to make sure I get the right one.
Build details of this engine can be found here.http://www.ae82.net/showthread.php?2...82-4agte-build
Any help is muchly appreciated as Im getting real cranky with this hold up in the build. Everything else is bout ready to go, just need a crank!!!
Cheers

EDIT- Toyota 4age crank p/n 13401-16020

[TERRA Operative]

All 4AGE cranks from the smallport to the GZE to the silvertop to the blacktop are exactly the same. Toyota use the same part number for all of them.

[dangdang]

Thankyou for the quick reply Terra, why all the confusion and misinformation floating around?
What is the p/n exactly, not that it matters to much, and also how can these cranks be identified? Any marking or stampings?

[trdee]

they all have 42mm journals. if you are unfortunate enough to get one of the really early ones, you will find it has 40mm journals. everything after the gen 1 "bluetop" 4AGE will have the same crank.

see if you can get clevite or king bearings in whatever size your crank has been ground to. there are other options than just ACL

[dangdang]

Clevite and King in grooved shells?

I will check on the other bearing manufacturers but I have a hunch they will be the same.

Does anyone have a crank? Surely to god there's one floating around here somewhere??

[Sam_Q]

I havent seen the confusion you speak of, they are definately forged from the markings. I have a company that wants my buisness to be a reseller of their products and they are offering a 4340 aftermarket crank for about $1200. I am wary of it though without researching it though

[allencr]

You want a 360 degree grooved main rather then 180 or the so-called 3/4's? You may have to buy 2 sets to do that.

I've read conflicting info in regards to the composition of GE and GZE cranks and whether they are actually forged or not.

Where???? Not on this or the NZ & US forums, cause IIRC every single time there is any conflict it is only from a twit or two piping in.
Also, if your machinist can't tell from a quick glance, I'd get another machinist.

[trdee]

You want info on 4AG's which cuts through the BS?? Read this

http://forum.4age.org/index.php?/top...-4ag-info-hub/

most of the misinformation seems to have been spread from US sources (who dont know shit)

[Casey-G]

King are good gear, go with them. Just do as above and get the full 360 groove, or two sets if needed

[dangdang]

You want a 360 degree grooved main rather then 180 or the so-called 3/4's? You may have to buy 2 sets to do that.
Where???? Not on this or the NZ & US forums, cause IIRC every single time there is any conflict it is only from a twit or two piping in.
Also, if your machinist can't tell from a quick glance, I'd get another machinist.

Not on the forums so much just random pages I came across tonight. Just changed my computer and lost all my bookmarks! linking me to all the handy info on here and other forums that I see most of you guys make happen.
Machinist is all good, I was just asking this as I wasn't sure myself.
360 grooved is what I was thinking.
Will be dropping the bottom end off tomorrow, soon as I can locate a crank things will
be rolling again.
Thanks again for the info guys.

[dangdang]

I havent seen the confusion you speak of, they are definately forged from the markings. I have a company that wants my buisness to be a reseller of their products and they are offering a 4340 aftermarket crank for about $1200. I am wary of it though without researching it though

Am skeptical of this for instance, too good to be true.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=130418944569
Thoughts???

[Casey-G]

I dont know of anyone who has use one/bought one and see how balanced they are..



stock ones are fuckin pretty good units... much cheaper than those also

[TERRA Operative]

Yea, the crank is not the weak point in the engine. I haven't heard of anyone ever breaking a stock crank yet...

[oldeskewltoy]

POWER's F1 Black Engine Bearing Supports 1000 HP with much less friction than any other race bearings in the market

Reducing the crank shaft temperature by
20C ( 68F) degrees lower than other bearings.

Power Enterprises Black Bearings.....
English - http://www.powerenterpriseusa.net/pr...l/f1_metal.htm
Japanese - http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/en...lackmetal.html

[Dongaz]

Those 4340 cranks aren't really worth the money. I did buy one and it isn't balanced properly in terms that the machinist had to play with it a bit.
The worst thing about those cranks is that they don't have enough counterweight to oppose the weight of your rods and pistons. The only reason you would buy that crank is if you had titanium rods and really light pistons.
By not having enough counterweight there will be alot of excess load on the main bearings and you will need to be changing them over regularly.
I don't understand why they could make a proper crank like Tomei or JUN if they wanted to copy one. Most people who would buy it wouldn't have a pocket deep enough to be buying $4000 rods or whatever they cost these days.
This is a pic of a billet crank that is full counterbalanced with extra counterweight VS a standard 4age one. This is ideal.
Attachment 10867
I would have bought one for mine but the price from my old work they charged $4000 for one. I think that could have been staff price as well. It isn't cheap to make a crank from a solid billet item and have all the heat treatment done and journals ground properly.

In the end I just bought a new 20v crank through Toyota NZ which came from Japan. Cost around the $560 mark delivered. I've had my machinist do a bit of work on it after that. I would have paid a bit less than the 4340 crank all up but anyone else would have paid more for the work I've had done. But hey it's all who you know.

Just depends on what outcome you want and the size of your pocket.