30 psi 18rg

[Rhyno]

Hi guys,
I new to these forums but have been doing quite a lot of studying regarding the old faithful "tractor motor" and researching blow and suck through turbo set up's.

The car i'm working on is a RT132 Liftback Corona currently equipped with an 18R-C that has been fully stripped, rebuilt, and had a bit of back yard tinkering with a die grinder to optimise the stock cylinder head and inlet manifold. Currently connected to the cylinder head is a 350 Holley, pace maker extractors, and 2 and 3/4 inch exhaust.

That was fun, now I am about to unbolt all this and put it aside, to bolt the 18 RG head on with its associated components, whack on a 500 HP turbo and manifolds to suit. I am planning on using a MSD ignition system to beef up the spark, but my main issue that is holding me back in my project is what to choose in regards to the fuel system.

I really don't want to go to a full EFI set up, just because I want to go the old school route. I am currently tossing up between using a mechanical injection system or converting a Holley carb to blow through, due to their broad range of parts.

I am currently leaning towards the Holley route, cause mechanical injection seems to be a bit hard to come by... also I am unsure what size carb I should go for. Should I get another 350 Holley and have them working in Parallel, or to step up to a single 750 Holley? What would have the least restriction for the turbo?

My main concern at the end of the day is to have a system that comes on to boost as quickly as possible and have solid power right till I hit the rev limiter, as I will be using this with my five speed gear box, and occasionly driving this on the street

So what are your thoughts? Looking forward to your input

Rhyno

[thechuckster]

"comes on to boost as quickly as possible and have solid power right till I hit the rev limiter" - am not sure an 18RG will do this for you without spending a container-load of cash on it.

Your five-speed (which is probably a W50?) will not last long at all doing this.

Without some form of timing retard, you won't be able to run high levels of boost. The MSD is only part of the solution.

Reliable high levels of boost do not come from randomly bolting on bits. You would be safer starting out low boost and working out how to make the motor handle increasingly higher levels of boost.

To do 18RG, you're better off starting out with a complete engine. There are so many things to change (head, timing gear, dizzi, etc) on the 18RC engine that rebuilding an existing 18RG will be easier.

How to stuff 30psi into an 18RG: http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=45130

Also, talk to NME308 about old-school blow-thru setups.

Personally, I'd go EFI with sensible boost levels and a W55/57/58 gearbox for starters.

[Rhyno]

Thanks for your input chuckster

I am currently in the process of building a motor similar to the one used in unda presha, but going to have a different fuel set up and driveline (amongst other obvisous things!)

The reason I am swaping the components across is that I have already rebuilt the bottom end of the 18RC, and putting the 18RG head on signifficantly drops the compression ratio.

The gear I am buying comes with an inlet manifold/plenum with provision for injectors, and I have been talked into going efi.

So forget the worry about the carby's, can anyone recomend a good after market efi system? Compatabile with an old schol 18RG upgrade?

Oh and I expected to blow the gear box up soon enough, just was going to get the motor sorted, then the driveline, no point wasting a good box!

[the_random_hero]

Adaptronic range of ECU's should suit, I've only heard good things. What is the car being used for?
Personally I'd go for a more modern engine and less boost, as you'd more than likely make the same sort of power for considerably less dollars.

[river]

Hi,

Personally, I'd go EFI with sensible boost levels and a W55/57/58 gearbox for starters.

That's what Trini is running... turbo'd, fully rebuilt 18R-GUE with Sard 700cc injectors, stock inlet manifold, GT25 turbo (set for 12lb boost), Autronics SM4 ECU and a W58 gearbox. She pulls 160rwkw, which is quite spritely.

With this set-up I can go up 2 more turbo sizes without any major re-work. The engine is built for about 23lb boost, so I can squeeze more out of her without breaking the engine. However, for this old codger, there comes a moment where the power being delivered goes from fun and drivable to scary and useless in the street.

The little GT25 spools up very quickly, and therefore she comes on boost quickly and there's no lag. It's a sweet package for cruising and also fun for zipping about the traffic in the 'burbs.

seeyuzz
river

[NME308]

30PSI + 500HP turbo + 30 year old motor, even I'd recommend EFI!

I'll champion blow through carby's to those who are keen, but beyond a certain point you'll have to spend quite a lot of money to keep up... You have to tune for the leanest cylinder with blow through carby so a single 4 barrel holley on an inline 4 banger is going to run into mixture distribution issues quicker than dual webbers. Twin webbers would be the way to go as there is a single throat per cylinder and you can make your own manifolds simply enough if the available ones aren't big enough. I suspect like the T series engines the non 'G' intake manifolds wont quickly bolt up and adapting one would probably be less than optimal due to small runner sizes and having to use carby adapters etc - another point for webbers. Carby's however don't know anything about isobars, high pressure systems, and troughs let alone the 4 normal seasons so its not necessarily fire and forget on the tuning front!

Now are you an old school carby expert or have close friends who are? Do you have plenty of time and patience to tune and creep up performance gradually? Is there support forums etc with accessable information for blow through webbers at high boost? Do your local tuners/dyno operators like playing with old school carby gear? If you want performance and reliability with the convenience of professional dyno tuning and diagnostics then spending good money EFI'ing the old girl will probably be the way to go for the HP you are chasing. Old man River has poured a fair wad of cash into his setup and as he has mentioned it could easily be stepped up in performance quite cheaply from there. You can do EFI on the cheap also but using old 2nd hand or dodgy new electronic components is hardly a recommendable way to achieve reliable high performance.

At the end of the day I recon I could do it cheaper with carbs, but with that level of performance from 2 liters you would constantly need to tinker with jetting and carb settings to keep performance optimal - so I'm saying it would suit an enthusiast more than a high performance conesseur!

Cheers,
Jason

[Duk]

dual webbers. Twin webbers............

Come on mate, they're Italian carbies not BBQ's. Only 1 b

That, and not many turbo's are going to be dishing out 30psi without incinerating the air. Compound turbo charging???

[Rhyno]

Cheers Random Hero, River and NME308. Oh and Duk check out http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=45130 I have been building a set up very similar to this, however I am going to opt for stainless steel ferra valves and Heavy duty dual valve springs as per Mr DOHC's recomendation.

The car is going to be used at motorkhana's, track attack, very occasional drag racing, and a bit of street driving when I manage to find the time, and can justify not taking the reliable camry. The Corona currently gets a fair bit of use whenever it rains...

I am not going to change the motor as it can lead to HUGE drama's trying to get the vehicle registered, and I have a sentimential attachment to the 18R block, been toying with the motor for about 6 years!!! I realise that shoe horning a 3SGTE or similar would be a much more reliabile set up, but this route has been done many times before, and I want it to be a little bit different. Also up hear in Darwin, there is a stigma that if it doesnt have "3S, SR, RB, JZ, or 350" in the engine name most don't believe you can make any power from it. I would like to prove some of the fast and furious kids up here wrong, as I have putting a 350 Holley on an 18RC, Commodore drivers are starting to get really pissed off when I'm still pulling away at 130Kmh!

Anyway I'm getting away from the point of this thread, just thought I would let you know the reasoning for my project.

Cheers for your thoughts NME308, I am pretty mechanicaly minded, but prefer to some what "set and forget"... SOOO000ooo... after a lot of debate and discussion I have been talked into going all out NEW EFI, and this has made things a lot easier on the fueling side at the engine, I just want to double check whats required and if you think I missing anything that would improve performance.

I think I would need, starting at the fuel tank;

1. A electric fuel filter
2. An electric fuel pump
3. A surge tank
4. 3SGTE fuel rail or similar (I imagine at a minimum, proberly should get bigger, any surgestions?)
5. Variable fuel pressure regulator
6. Injectors (unknown sizes at present)
7. Return line back to tank
8. Return line entry point (Either aftermarket tank or Solder a new line inlet)
9. Anything else?

As for the efi set up, I am lead to believe that most management systems come with the various sensor's so that should save a few dollars. Since I'm going all out, and have stripped the interior all ready (read: F/A trims ANYWHERE! no back seats or anything, just two bucket seats a dash, a head unit and two 5x7 inch speakers, just enough to keep me entertained when sitting in drive through's etc.) I want to mount a small laptop in the glove box or similar, and have a small touch screen monitor mounted on the dash to monitor the various readings. What I'm leading up to here is there a type of management system that has a good onscreen display, to be on full time while driving, or am I just imagining a "pie in the sky"?

At the end of the day I just want this thing to be a bullet in a straight line, but also (somewhat) be fun around corners as well.

[thechuckster]

1-3: see if an EFI tank from RA65 or ST14x will fit your chassis - i fitted a Corona EFI tank into my RA40 as they're near-identical in size (dimensionally, MA61, MZ10, RA65, RA60, SA63, RA40, ST14x are basically the same). Gives you an intank EFI pump and your only problem is adapting the tank outlet to the hard fuel feed line (e.g. get barb fitting to screw into end of flex section, then join with small section of EFI hose). The existing hard fuel line from rear to front will cope until you want mega boost.

4. 18RGUE fuel rail will be sufficient and will not require any mods to line up injectors to ports in the manifold. If you go massive levels of boost, then fuel rail extrusion can be bought on eBay or from folks who re-sell EFI hardware. Get machine shop to drill & tap as required.

5. 2nd-hand SARD FRP off ebay will be more than adequate. Do not get a rising rate reg.

6. just make sure they fit the 18RGUE rail - someone on here will know the size of the inlets/outlets. (2nd-hand 4AGZE or 7MGTE would be a good start)

7. use existing return line and connect the engine bay end to the return outlet on the FPR.

8. tank will have three ports: fuel out, fuel return and vapour out (going to charcoal canister) - use as designed.

9. skid pics

[Draven]

fyi: for a 500bhp setup, you'll be looking at either a bosch 040 intank, which will be close to maxed, or a lifter into surge tank feeding an 044 (or equivilent)

[Rhyno]

Cheers Chuckster and Draven, I will check out these idea's. Will post up some photo's soon