Which external ignitor for a 4kc electric dizzy??

[jackbyo]

hey hey

I've got a reconditioned electric distributor on the way from the states to replace my current points setup. it's for a stock 1980 ke55 corolla with a 4kc engine
the new dizzy is from a 1982 4kc toyota starlet. seller tells me that it needs an external ignitor and does not come with one

so what's a common ignitor that will work with it? I've searched the forums and google but it's not working for me
new/used doesnt matter but cheap is good!

also I assumed that the coil that is already in my stock 4kc would work with it, but now i'm worried that it wont

in any case, I'm having a hard time getting my head around all this new info about distributors, and truth be told I'm just hoping to get all the parts cheaply and then pay a mechanic to swap it all over for me

cheers

btw here's the reconditioned dizzy i just bought (it was on sale for $35USD)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT


Thanks kindly!

[oldcorollas]

i used fairly standard bosch ignitor module... i can find no later
just need one that takes reluctor input

[checksix]

Look at this post [Guide] 2T, 3T-c & 18R-c Electronic Dizzy's. "How To" This shows what the igniter looks like. Your coil will work as well as just about any coil you want to use. The igniter just senses the hall effect of the electronis inside the distributor and tells the coil when to fire. The newest models have the coil and igniter built into the distributor (oops sorry dizzy), and thus the term "external ignitor". Early 80's Celica would work. I'm currently playing with using different coils to get a hotter spark so I can set my plug gap into the 40's. I adapted a Ford coil out of an early 80's pick-up as it was the right size (and quite cheap) and the Ford plugs are gapped at .045 so I fig this will work (well, it is so far). I'll highjack your thread a little as this will be info you'll want too.

On coils that are listed to use an external resistor, do you have to? If one remembers the 70's set ups, the coils used a resistor to step the voltage down to the coil. I was always under the impression this is a "points" thing to prevent their rapid wear, and wouldn't be used in the electronic version. Does anyone know this answer?

[oldcorollas]

umm, the 4KE are reluctor, not hall effect...

if you want hotter spark, just get a standard Bosch HEC whatever coil... the black ones for elec ignition

[ONETEN]

HEC-715 is what you are reffering too methinks. I use 4 of them on my ca18.

If it will work with a dizzy (not sure but cant see why not), you could run a LS1 coil, alot similar in size to the HEC-715 plus it runs a built-in ignitor so that solves your ignitor woes also!! Not to mention you could weld a piece of 1/2 inch steel with one of these coils they have got that much spark.

[RA35GT]

Here for ignitor part number and pinout for reluctor dizzy.
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=24609

Coil and ignitor can be had from old commodores. I've used a HEC716 coil previously as well.

[oldcorollas]

thanks 7M, i'm prety sure thats the module i'm usign too

[checksix]

OldCorollas, yep you are correct, I sand corrected. However in doing the research I did come across some pretty neat stuff (trying to prove you wrong), Ha Ha!!! so thanks for the kick in the butt to do the research.

7M, cool post on the HEI conversion. I did a quick check and didn't get many hits for the bosch setup here in the states, but I know I need to dig deeper. Perhaps later today or this evening I'll have time. I may have to pick your brain later, as I might do this or similar.

[jackbyo]

thanks for all the replies!

I should mention that i just bought this ke55 coupe a couple weeks ago. It has only 47,000 km's (hasnt ticked over) but was sitting in a garage for the last 3 years undriven. I've changed fluids, filters and the battery, but just wanted to get an elec distributor system in there before i got it registered again. body's in alright shape, interior is lovely. and i grabbed it for $900 !!

To be honest i'm having a bit of a hard time getting my head around all of the electrics side, but here's what i've deduced...

1. being as it's totally stock (for now), I can just keep the stock coil and worry about bigger hotter sparks later on

2. the 1982 starlet dizzy that I'm going to use is reluctor type, not hall effect. And from my limited research, hall effect is newer and somewhat better technology than reluctor type (but i dont mind at all). as such, that extensive guide written by GA61XX won't really apply to me

3. After having read 7M's great tutorial here I've figured that a BIM024 ignitor module is pretty much all I need to buy. Repco will sell me one brand new for $60.

does that all seem right? I'm just gonna bring the car with the starlet dizzy and the BIM-024 to an auto-electrician with the diagram from the other thread, and tell him I wanna keep the coil that's in there already

i think my only question now would be if i need to buy a resistor as well, or if there would already be one in my stock 4k points system??

oh and here's a pic of the corolla taken this morning

Thanks heaps!!

[checksix]

7M, I'm baaaaack! The Bosch combo you quoted is a very tough find in the states (I've yet to find it, Aussy ONLY, so far). So I Did a bunch of other searching. At one point the GM HEI (2nd generation that uses the separate dizzy cap, igniter and coil) looked pretty good, but wasn't recommended for high RPM, which was why I started searching as mine cut out just over 6000 RPM. The LS1 didn't look to be a good fit with the reluctor type distributor (but wasn't very confident on my analysis). Ford Duraspark held a fair amount of promise, then i came to this thread while searching for an equivalent to the Bosch BIM 024 http://www.valiantpacers.com/archive...-Ignition.html About 2/3rds the way down there is a list of "equivalents", but in further research, I'd say they are GM equivalent, but then the Bosch might be just that! There is sooooo much info out there from wave form to joules in how to pick a system, it seems over whelming. I just want a HEI to 7500 RPM. I'll put most of my decision on what works with the Toyotas, and so far that looks like getting a Bosch HEC-715 coil and running the Toyota igniter, or perhaps the GM equivalent igniter. All comments VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

[RA35GT]

thanks for all the replies!

I should mention that i just bought this ke55 coupe a couple weeks ago. It has only 47,000 km's (hasnt ticked over) but was sitting in a garage for the last 3 years undriven. I've changed fluids, filters and the battery, but just wanted to get an elec distributor system in there before i got it registered again. body's in alright shape, interior is lovely. and i grabbed it for $900 !!

To be honest i'm having a bit of a hard time getting my head around all of the electrics side, but here's what i've deduced...

1. being as it's totally stock (for now), I can just keep the stock coil and worry about bigger hotter sparks later on

2. the 1982 starlet dizzy that I'm going to use is reluctor type, not hall effect. And from my limited research, hall effect is newer and somewhat better technology than reluctor type (but i dont mind at all). as such, that extensive guide written by GA61XX won't really apply to me

3. After having read 7M's great tutorial here I've figured that a BIM024 ignitor module is pretty much all I need to buy. Repco will sell me one brand new for $60.

does that all seem right? I'm just gonna bring the car with the starlet dizzy and the BIM-024 to an auto-electrician with the diagram from the other thread, and tell him I wanna keep the coil that's in there already

i think my only question now would be if i need to buy a resistor as well, or if there would already be one in my stock 4k points system??

oh and here's a pic of the corolla taken this morning

Thanks heaps!!

Looks good mate.

Just keep in mind that the module needs the full 12V to operate. Your coil will likely have a ballast resistor which drops the voltage when its running so you need to source the +12V from the appropriate terminal.

Although I would recommend getting a new transformer type coil at the same time if budget allows. (HEC716 was like $80 when I did it, a while ago now though).

You should give it a go yourself mate, its pretty easy to wire up.

Note that the resistor shown on the pictures in my thread was only required for the tacho. If you don't have a tacho than you don't need to worry about it.

7M, I'm baaaaack! The Bosch combo you quoted is a very tough find in the states (I've yet to find it, Aussy ONLY, so far). So I Did a bunch of other searching. At one point the GM HEI (2nd generation that uses the separate dizzy cap, igniter and coil) looked pretty good, but wasn't recommended for high RPM, which was why I started searching as mine cut out just over 6000 RPM. The LS1 didn't look to be a good fit with the reluctor type distributor (but wasn't very confident on my analysis). Ford Duraspark held a fair amount of promise, then i came to this thread while searching for an equivalent to the Bosch BIM 024 http://www.valiantpacers.com/archive...-Ignition.html About 2/3rds the way down there is a list of "equivalents", but in further research, I'd say they are GM equivalent, but then the Bosch might be just that! There is sooooo much info out there from wave form to joules in how to pick a system, it seems over whelming. I just want a HEI to 7500 RPM. I'll put most of my decision on what works with the Toyotas, and so far that looks like getting a Bosch HEC-715 coil and running the Toyota igniter, or perhaps the GM equivalent igniter. All comments VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.

Hey man, Didn't realise you were in the US. I imagine it would be hard finding commodores and stuff there LOL. This AC Delco one should work for you mate.

NAPA OnLine sells the 4-pin HEI ignition module, ECHTP45, for ~$39 + shipping. These are also widely available as Wells DR100, Niehoff DR400, Standard part numberLX-301 (~$28); or AC DELCO D1906 (~$33), and were used on many non-computer GM V-8s, V-6s and I-6s from 1975 to the mid 1980s.

Here is how to wire it up. The four HEI module terminals are labeled W, G, B and C.

* W = positive lead (+) from the pickup
* G = negative lead (-) from the pickup
* C = negative side (-) of the coil
* B = positive side (+) of the coil

[oldcorollas]

my module is 222 067 021 which i think was superceded by the 024..(http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?showtopic=35421)

Checksix, you could always order the HEI kit from Jaycar (electronics mob in aus) or get the circut and make one yourself.. they work really well with points.

[jackbyo]

Just keep in mind that the module needs the full 12V to operate. Your coil will likely have a ballast resistor which drops the voltage when its running so you need to source the +12V from the appropriate terminal.

Although I would recommend getting a new transformer type coil at the same time if budget allows. (HEC716 was like $80 when I did it, a while ago now though).

You should give it a go yourself mate, its pretty easy to wire up.

when you say appropriate terminal, do you mean that there's a full 12v terminal on my stock coil i need to attach it to?
perhaps I will grab a bosch coil. I've noticed that there's HEC715 and HEC716, and according to that bosch ignitor coil PDF, the only difference is the secondary terminals. Which are the easier to install?
I'm thinking of getting the coil and trying this myself. would still save money over having it all done by a professional, and then i'd end up with a mostly brand new ignition system

will post lots more questions once the dizzy arrives and i've got the coil/module
thanks heaps

edit: okay so what i'm thinking now is keeping stock coil for now, replacing it later on
but is there a diagram or picture of where the 12v terminal is that i need to hook the coil to?

thanks

[RA35GT]

The factory ballasted coil wont have a +12V Ignition on it. But there should be +12V ignition on the ballast resistor itself.

The secondary terminal is where high voltage comes out and goes to the distributor. You need to choose the right one to suit your current leads (Saves having to change the lead as well).

Sounds good mate, should be pretty straight forward once you have all the bits in front of you.

[checksix]

First I wish to thank all the forum members for the suggestions so far. I had just about given up finding a BIM024, when I searched on "Auto Parts AU" I got this hit:

http://onlineauto.com.au/search.php?mode=search&page=1 for $57

Hoping to find a cheaper price I then found this

Volvo Ignition Module - 240, 740, 760, 940, 960
Volvo Ignition Module
Volvo 240 Ignition Module, Volvo 740 Ignition Module, Volvo 760 Ignition Module, Volvo 940 Ignition Module, Volvo 960 Ignition Module

Bosch part no. 0227100124

To suit:


Make Model Series Year Engine code Cylinders Engine size
Citroen XM 5/89-6/93 SFZ 6 Cyl 3.0L
Citroen XM 6/93-12/97 UFZ 6 Cyl 3.0L
Holden Camira JD 11/85-1/86 18JU 4 Cyl 1.8L
Peugeot 605 7/93-5/99 UFZ 6 Cyl 3.0L
Porsche 911 964
9/89-8/93 964.01 / 02 6 Cyl 3.6L
Porsche 928 8/83-7/86 M28.21 / 22 8 Cyl 4.7L
Porsche 928 8/85-7/86 M28.45 / 46 8 Cyl 4.7L
Porsche 928 8/91-11/95 M28.49 / 50 8 Cyl 5.4L
Porsche 944 11/88-8/89 M44.11 / 12 4 Cyl 2.7L
Porsche 944 12/88-7/91 M44.41 4 Cyl 3.0L
Saab 900 9/85-7/87 B202I 4 Cyl 2.0L
Saab 900 9/88-8/91 B201I 4 Cyl 2.0L
Saab 900 9/88-8/93 B202L 4 Cyl 2.0L Turbo
Saab 900 9/90-8/93 B212I 4 Cyl 2.1L
Saab 9000 8/86-8/93 B202I 4 Cyl 2.0L
Volvo 240 8/88-7/93 B230F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 740 8/84-7/87 B230F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 740 7/87-7/92 B230F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 740 8/84-7/91 B230E 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 740 4/88-7/90 B234F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 740 8/84-7/91 B230FT 4 Cyl 2.3L Turbo
Volvo 760 5/86-7/91 B280F 6 Cyl 2.8L
Volvo 760 8/84-7/89 B230FT 4 Cyl 2.3L Turbo
Volvo 760 8/89-7/92 B230FT 4 Cyl 2.3L Turbo
Volvo 940 6/91-7/95 B230F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 940 9/90-7/92 B234F 4 Cyl 2.3L
Volvo 940 9/94-7/97 B230FK 4 Cyl 2.3L Turbo
Volvo 940 9/90-7/97 B230FT 4 Cyl 2.3L Turbo
Volvo 960 9/90-7/91 B280F 6 Cyl 2.8L

http://www.cyberspaceautoparts.com.a...on_Module.html

This is a Bosch module PN Bosch part no. 0227100124 It ends in 24 but is a different number. However in researching to find the BIM024 I did find a a lot of reference to Volvo. So now I'm thinking to go back to the local pik-n-pull and see whats under the hood for Volvos. Does anyone recoginize this PN as workable? Bosch part no. 0227100124