Haltech E6 crank trigger

[ONCE-NA]

Hey! I'm putting my old 3T-GTE in GW's car and we want to run direct fire ignition (wasted) as it was in my car.
From what I can tell from the manual the simplest way to get a trigger is a 60 tooth wheel with 2 teeth missing mounted on the crank, and a hall effect sensor on that. Or can I use my old wolf crank trigger plate that has 2 teeth at 180 deg to each other and 1 tooth back 10 degrees from TDC as a reference.
I don't want the complication of running a separate home or sync trigger so it looks like the 60 tooth thing is the only way? We want to use what we have around if possible. Can somone confirm this?

[Norbie]

For my 18R-G (with Haltech E6X) I'm planning to use a Ford-style 36-1 tooth wheel mounted behind the crank pulley. You can buy the wheel from Motec (look up the catalog on their web site) then you get the centre hole drilled out to match your crank. Then grab a hall effect sensor from whatever and off you go.

I have a feeling that a wheel with two teeth isn't going to have very good accuracy.

[fixeruperer]

The S3 Hall Effect Sensor

The S3 sensor which is identified by a black cable gland, operates in the following way:
As a south pole passes the sensor face the signal in both the primary (PIN C) and secondary
(PIN D) channels are switched to a low state. As a north pole passes the sensor a low state
will only occur on the primary channel.

Note: magnets should always be mounted in a non ferrous material such as
aluminium, stainless steel or titanium.
Many installers have successfully mounted the rare earth magnets in non-ferrous surrounds
such as modified aluminium and stainless steel bolts, and installed the bolts into ferrous
material.

With these characteristics a direct fire can be set up in the following way:
Using the sensor on the crank
After a suitable mounting location for the sensor has been found the engine should be
positioned at approximately 75° BTDC on cylinder no.1 compression. The magnet should
now be placed in the aluminium disk with the south pole facing towards the sensor, making
sure the magnet is in line with the sensor when the engine is in this position. This is now the
reference point for all the other magnets. The number of cylinders will determine the number
of magnets required and the angle of installation. The remainder of the magnets to be fitted
will all have a north pole facing the sensor.
The adjustment of the air gap will be determined by the strength of the magnets used. This
should be tested once the wheel assembly has been installed. Checking the Engine Data page
for steady RPM is usually a good indication that the airgap is acceptable.
Identifying the magnets poles
If you need to identify the magnet poles this can be done easily with the use of a multimeter.
By powering up the sensor, using 12 volts (PIN B) and ground (PIN A)
the secondary trigger channel (PIN D) can be checked to identify a south pole. Connecting the
multimeter between PIN D and ground, 12 volts should be present. When a South pole is
placed in front of the sensor this value will go to 0 volts.
Fitting the magnets
We insist that only Haltech rare earth magnets (part number REM1) be used for the purpose
of triggering the sensor. Rare earth magnets purchased from your local electronics store may
be less expensive but they are not good enough! Haltech rare earth magnets are strong with
good stability to reasonably high temperatures and which have a long service life. Some rare
earth magnets are stronger but break down under excessive temperature, or are too brittle for
the purpose, or do not have a long service life. Ordinary magnets ie not rare earth types, may
not have the strength required for satisfactory triggering at high speeds.

Haltech REM1 rare earth magnets are normally 5mm dia x 2mm depth, although other sizes
are available upon special order.
The magnets should be fitted in non-ferrous surrounds such as aluminium, stainless steel or
titanium. The trigger wheel is normally made of the chosen material but various users have
reported good results when the magnets are set in a suitable non-ferrous surround and the
surround is set into a ferrous material.
The magnets should be set flush with or slightly back from the surface of the trigger wheel or
surround. If set too far back the magnetic signal may be too weak. The magnets should be set
in place with a strong and durable fixing compound such as high strength epoxy, Loctite stud
locking compound eg 603, or JBweld. Some users rely only on the fixing compound but to
ensure that the magnets remain in place but many prefer that they be retained by mechanical
means such as peening, and this gives an added safety factor.

i used ally disk with 3 small holes drilled and locktighted the magnets in, i machined my front pulley flat (as it was a twin belt) and used the 2 threaded holes in the crank pulley to fasten it but i used 2 disks one was the timing on the outside and the center one was to tighten it up (boths rings were stepped so they alligned up straight)so you can adjust the outer ring by spinning and tightening it up from the center.

[Ghetto-Spec .:bayka:.]

Hey guys.

I have a Haltech E6A (yes its tuned via good old dos) that I want to get running on a standard N/A for 4age for now.

I have full loom, and understand all necessary inputs and outputs except trigger.

I have heard about people using hall effect sensors for the crank trigger on haltech's and I have a question - why is it that you can't use the distributor to indicate crank position, doesn't the dizzy also act as a crank angle sensor by sensing the cam position? (i.e. isn't the dizzy the trigger for the factory 4age ecu?)

Sorry if this is a stupid question, this is my first go at wiring an ECU.

[fixeruperer]

you can, give it a shot and see how it goes.
Some people have had good luck with using dizzy's with the haltech's on 4ag's and some have not.

[Norbie]

Yep, you can use a distributor-mounted CAS if you want, I've heard of people using Nissan units (eg from an RB30E) and jamming them inside a Toyota distributor. I decided to avoid doing this on my 18R-G because the distributor is run off a fairly long chain which can stretch and lead to an inaccurate crank position reading. At least with a crank-mounted sensor you can be certain you're reading the actual position of the crank at all times.

BTW I just ordered a 36-1 trigger wheel and sensor from this site:

http://trigger-wheels.com/

Teh Witzl is using their products also, I think he has a photo of it installed somewhere.

[3jcelica]

Norbie,

The Nissan units generally have a CAS that has 360 slots in the outer ring and a varying slot length to determine crank position, with the inner having the same number of slots as the number of engine cylinders. The problem with the 360 slots and the varying length is most aftermarket computers have a hard time reading them(e6x can handle it) . A Toyota 24+2 (24 teeth outer 2 teeth inner use VR sensors) CAS or a Mitsubishi 4+2 or 4+1 (uses optical) are probably better options, also autronic sell a CAS disc that is 4+1 and fits into a nissan CAS. I would stick with the crank trigger myself, the only advantage I see with the CAS is the sensors are less exposed to the environment however if all triggered off the cam you can still have slop in the timing.

Once-na,

The crank wheel is a straight forward mod and removes any slop in the timming as the signals come from the crank.

Take a look at this thread, much is explained here.

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52920

Quick breif is the 3tgte has two crank pulleys, the outer one is bolted to the inner one which is bolted to the crank.

The outer one is bolted on with 4 bolts on a PCD. On my 3tgte I used this trigger wheel

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/3...eel-p-181.html

from www.diyautotune.com . It is a 36-1 wheel edis style similar to what norbie and witzl have but a bolt on thing.

Notice it has slots, these slots can be used to bolt the wheel on and locate it on centre (by bolting it onto 3 or more bolts on the same PCD it will locate centre).

So in summary buy the wheel, file out the slots slightly (as the m8 bolts are only slightly too big), remove outer pulley and bolt trigger wheel on. This saves machining the pulley for a press fit, or spacing the pully to put a centre bolt through. The down side is that to pull off the crank pulley the wheel has to come off. But how often do you pull the crank pulley off?. I guess if you want to run the outer pulley still you could sandwich the trigger wheel between them.

You will need a VR sensor I use one from a ford au, but you could use an abs one or any other that looks attractive.

Hope this helps. Going to wasted spark on my 3tgte was the best thing I could have done. I use hyundai 2 x excel coils packs on mine.

Roger

[Ghetto-Spec .:bayka:.]

Awesome, thanks guys that gives me some ideas to work with.

[NAJJE]

Hey guys,

I am running a haltech E6x on my 3T-GTE. I am using an S4 hall effect sensor (grey gland) on a custom trigger wheel containing 4 haltech rare earth magnets. Pretty simple mod and works a treat.

I will try a dig up some pics.

PM me if you want any info.

Rob

[ltk-oop]

This may seem like a silly question but if you use a diyautotune trigger wheel do you need to attach the rare earth magnets to it or is it ready to go? i've got a motec gt101 hall effect sensor, are these sensors reliable? i'm hopeing to be able to use the setup with a E6A halech, i know its old but still works like new.

[3jcelica]

All after market crank wheels you normally see will require a VR sensor as opposed to hall effect sensor. I guess you could glue 4 magnets on if you really must use hall effect, I would hate to see one fly off at high revs.

VR sensor produce a sine wave which needs to be converted to a square wave, some after market computers can't do this, this is the only reason to use hall effect, either that or you do some signal conditioning before going to the computer, I have done this before using a 22re ignition module for the conditioner and worked really well. I belive wolf sells one also or you can make a simply circuit.

Roger

[Hurricane]

on my 3tc it runs a cutom front pulley/ trigger wheel with 2 haltech rare earth magnets in it, runnning a haltech sensor.

works fine, seems the easyest way to me if u need to make a trigger wheel.

dan.

[cri_ag]

Hey guys.

I have a Haltech E6A (yes its tuned via good old dos) that I want to get running on a standard N/A for 4age for now.

I have full loom, and understand all necessary inputs and outputs except trigger.

I have heard about people using hall effect sensors for the crank trigger on haltech's and I have a question - why is it that you can't use the distributor to indicate crank position, doesn't the dizzy also act as a crank angle sensor by sensing the cam position? (i.e. isn't the dizzy the trigger for the factory 4age ecu?)

Sorry if this is a stupid question, this is my first go at wiring an ECU.

i have a haltech e6k which i believe is similar to your e6a (e6a is older) and i use the factory dizzy on my 4a to provide a trigger. there were some very slight modifications required inside, concerned with wiring. but it works no dramas

[3jcelica]

My mistake, the diyautotune trigger wheels are steel as are most aftermarket wheels, you would need a non ferrous wheel if you wanted to put rare earth magnets and hall sensors on it.

I assume this is why hurricane is running a custom front pully/trigger wheel.

Roger

[stradlater]

What?

Hall effect wheels need to be ferrous, that's how they work...?

I know this, I have two..

You can use a hall effect sensor with no 'magnet's on a ferrous wheel.