Intermittent cold starting delay, 3S-GE

[Andrew162]

I've been running my 3rd Gen 3S-GE (ST202 import cut) without mishap since August last year. I've noticed an intermittent starting issue I've been having, which doesn't seem to rely on any specific condition, ie. cold/hot weather, etc.

Basically the description of the fault is this: turn the key to Start, there's a slight pause between when you'd turn the key and the instantaneous kick over you'd expect to get from turning. Today that pause was very apparent, taking about a second to kick over from turning to Start. I let the key go when the engine started cranking, but I should have kept my hand on the key. In between cranks I heard what sounded like a fuel pump buzzing/priming noise but couldn't be too sure. Kicked it over again, same delay, then started up no problems.

This seems to be a very sporadic and intermittent issue as I mentioned, but no less worrying. Also, with this problem, sometimes the starter seems to stutter when cranking, creating a very metally noise, which kind of leads me to think that there's something wrong with the starter motor. I've never seen this happen before, and I'm scratching my head as to what exactly is wrong here.

I've considered:

-weak coil/CDI
-buggered starter (but it starts up fine most of the time)

I'm not sure what else to consider for this fault, but I'm in need of a hint or two, perhaps a solution if someone has had this trouble before too.

Thanks in advance, as usual..

[AndyTTR]

Try Karl's starter motor power booster trick. Mine had the same problem and that fixed it for me.

[blakeg]

yeh same thing my 162, did the relay trick and its been good ever since/

[Dale]

Link to Karls thread http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3334

The problem is actually to do with the contacts in the key barrel, a relay is just by far the easiest and cheapest way to solve it

[Andrew162]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Dale, interesting suggestion, I wouldn't have thought the ignition barrel was the issue, but having said that my headlight/indicator stalk had rooted contacts as well once, why not.

Just going from Karl's thread, what order should the relay pins be going to which components? I have a 4-pin relay here with me (and a 30A fuse ready to go) but his post caters for a 5-pin. I've seen different posts from different threads about Karl's wiring solution and in the FAQ it was modified slightly by Señor Witzl, but nothing was sorted for a 4-pin relay, just a clarification from Steve. Being the wiring guru that I am not, I'm just looking for someone to confirm on which order the wires from the relay should run to where.

[AndyTTR]

If you read the instructions you'll see that the fifth pin isn't used. A four pin relay wont have an 87a pin... pretty self explanatory I would've thought?

87 - positive terminal on battery (MUST BE FUSED @ 30-40A)
86 - negative terminal on battery (or chassis earth)
30 - wiring harness (right plug in bottom pic - power out to starter motor)
85 - to starter / wire (left plug in bottom pic - power from key barrel)

[Andrew162]

Besides the fifth pin still being LIVE, there's conjecture in multiple threads and posts about who hooked up what to where, or I would not be asking. What you've quoted only comes from one thread. Can anyone tell me if it really matters?

[blakeg]

is that what you want ?

85 / 86 doesnt matter on polarity.

[Grega]

andrew do you have an alarm fitted that kills the starter signal.
i had an alarm which did this often on my vl turbo. i could go from on to start and there is a pregnant pause between the alarm saying OK go now till it starts cranking...
i ended up removing it and putting a decent brant in which fixed that problem.

[Andrew162]

Nah nothing that hi-tech, this has only happened since the conversion which may be coincidence.. the alarm I got now I call the Rottweiler - loud and dumb. No intelligence to it at all, doesn't even know when certain doors are open. I'd very much doubt it has any type of control over the start signal like your VL did.

The decent alarm will be coming soon.

Blake thanks for posting that up btw, it's not rectified yet but hopefully it soon will be.

[beerhead]

Before putting any effort into a starter relay test if there's voltage drop on that circuit first. Using a multi meter put 1 lead on the 12V terminal of the battery, then the other one on the starter motor solenoid trigger once its unplugged and put the meter in DC voltage mode. Get someone to turn the key and hold it on start. The output on the meter is the drop over that circuit. If its dropping more than a volt the relay is definitely the solution, otherwise it's time to clean up all your chassis grounds and check using the same technique from the block to the negative terminal to see if that's where the voltage drop is.

[blakeg]

that wont always show voltage drop under load, there may be a high resistance joint (keybarrel) preventing the current building up in the coil of the starter.

alas i would be 90% thats the problem, same on my 162 and lots of other Toyota of the vintage, relay always does the trick