MR2 boxes, same turbo vs non turbo?

[Shifty]

Hey guys

I have a 3SGE box what I wasn't intending to use with my 3SGTE, but it's pretty chunky (certainly compared to the 4A box anyway). The driveshaft splines out of the box are considerably larger diameter and I'd guess more splines (difficult tocount) and the box is physically larger in every way with the input shaft being a good 30% bigger by eye (haven't measured/counted yet).

So does this mean it's the same as the turbo box, just without an LSD, or are they bigger again?

[Joshstix]

The MR2 turbo box is an E153 pretty much the same as the box out off the 4AGZE or the GT4 without the transfer case. The NA SW20 uses an S series box that is quite similar to the C series boxes.

[Shifty]

So is it possible that I lucked out with this gearbox and got an E-series? I will have a good look at them tonight side-by-side and do some measurements... the box I have looks a fair bit larger than the C5x from my 4A.

How can I identify if it is an S or an E series... input shaft size? Driveshaft splines? Gear ratios? Physical size? Layout of box/starter/etc?

[Joshstix]

Does the box have the drive shaft tulips (the inner section of the inner CV's that go into the gearbox)? The E series box uses equal length shafts with a lay shaft that bolts to the block for the drivers side. The S series uses unequal length shafts with a really long shaft for the drivers side. So if it has two tulips that look the same then they're going to be from an NA.

[Shifty]

The box didn't come with the driveshaft flanges in the box (I refuse to call any part of my car a tulip).

Either way it's considerably larger than the C-series box in every dimension. If I can find some driveshafts (eg. SV21 Camry?) that will work with this box in my AE82 without modification I'll probably run it... if I have to spend up on custom shafts then I'll wait around for a turbo box & shafts.

[jonathan yee]

the shafts are also diff between LSD and non lsd.

is it an mr2 box? arent they a PITA to get workin in a FWD?

most of the guys running turbo's in FWD celica's use the standard fwd s-series box.

or try and get a V6 camry box. fwd setup with e series box. terry at road and track normally have a supply of them with shafts needed.

[TooF]

get some photos up and we should be able to identify it.

[Shifty]

Ok so I did some comparing. The box that came with my 3SGTE (was apparently from a 3SGE MR2 but looking at the shifter arrangement must be from a FWD eg Celica), and the clutch from the 3SGTE is a perfect fit for the input shaft on the alleged 3SGE box.

I just drove interstate to pick up a V6 Camry box, and when I got there it didn't seem that big and also had "3SFE" written on it in faded paint pen which is awesome

So anyway I compared the two boxes and the "3SGE" one I have in the garage already is much bigger than the "3SFE" box which is in turn much bigger than the box I pulled off my 4A (may/may not be an actual 4AGE box as the motor was replaced at some stage).

So, the clutch plate on the 3SGTE:

* fits perfectly on the "3SGE" box.
* slides onto the input shaft of the 3SFE and spins freely without contacting the teeth
* is like punching a bucket when I put it on the input shaft of the 4A box.

Similarly, the clutch plate from the 4A:

* fits perfectly on the 4A box
* won't go on the "3SFE" box
* I didn't even bother trying on the "3SGE" box as it's obvious it won't fit

So, I've got 3 different transaxle boxes that look different sizes and all have different input shafts.

The driveshafts that came with the "3SFE" box of course fit it perfectly. When putting them in the "3SGE" box it's like punching a bucket, they're not even close. I ahven't tried them on the 4A box but it would be fair to say based on the input shaft difference and external dimensions of the box that they probably won't fit.

Other points of note:

The "3SGE" box has a metal end "sump" (but at the end of the box, not underneath like the sump on an engine) and the 4S and "3SFE" box have alloy ends.

The "3SGE" box is much larger in the 'rear' area that the driveshafts bolt to (I suppose that's where the final drive is located?)

Any info would be great, pics:

"3SFE" box on left "3SGE" box on right.


"3SGE" box - note the area where the driveshafts go in, compared to below pic:


"3SFE" box - note the area where the driveshafts go in, compared to above pic:


"3SGE" box

[Shifty]

Initially I thought the "3SGE" box was an MR2 item but I assume it's a FWD box as the input for the shifter linkages is on the same side as the "3SFE" box and I understood that they were on the other side of the box in an MR2.

[Shifty]

Ok well apparently this is a Camry S53 box:


And apparently this is an MR2T box:


Just need to work out what's what and what mine looks like the most...

[jonathan yee]

looks to me that it's either an mr2 box converted for use in a FWD, people do this to get the LSD for celica gt2 conv's.

or it's a camry v6 e153 box.

look where the drive shafts go, is there a bar goin across the middle? think thats one way to tell if it's LSD or not.

if it's a standard mr2 las then good luck finding the inner stub axles. they 900 a side new from toyota i think and dont come across them often second hand.

[Shifty]

Looking at the front of the box, it is 99.9% identical to the MR2T box I posted just above, the only dcifference I can see is where the engine mount bolts on there's some extra ribbing that isn't there on my box. Every other casting mark seems to be the same.

The other doubts I have are that it (a) came from a 3SGE and (b) I think it's a little short to be an 'unbreakable' box as the gears can only be so big in a casing like that.

It does look remarkbably like this ST185 GT4 box, apart from the obvious addition of the transfer case.

[Shifty]

The biggest area of doubt is the length of the box. If you see on my box the bolts for mounting the box are right up against the 'sump' at the end.



That matches the GT4 box (directly above) but when compared to this camry E153 the E153 has another inch or so of casing between the mounting bolts and the 'sump' section which suggests that the GT4 box, and my box, are both shorter than the E153 (ie. has a smaller gearset, and is not an E-series box)... but I know that the GT4 box is supposed to be an E-series so that's got me REALLY confused.

E-series Camry box I mentioned HERE -> http://img291.imageshack.us/i/e153transmountcz6.jpg/

[jonathan yee]

well it looks exactly like my sw20 turbo box except for the shift linkages being swapped over. i know road and track modify mr2 boxes to go in fwd drive cars.

or maybe i's a gt4 box witht the rear drive removed and an mr2 side cover plate instead.

the gear sets in them are "indestructable" possibly becuase the syncro's go first, probs with 2nd and 4th.

tristan @wtf auto is running a twin turbo V6 with 500hpATW thru a standard mr2 turbo box.

[Shifty]

Yeah I know they're strong, that's why I want to know if this is one or if I should go chasing another...

I notice two things about mine, compared to this one which is an E153. One is that my clutch fork is different, and two is that the ribbing (which I think is where the MR2 mount goes, the three bolt holes) on the left-hand side is not present on mine.

http://www.postimage.org/Pq1ccJUi-33...22c13f2d2a.jpg