Live Axle Setups

[o_man_ra23]

I would personally be agreeing on the 5 link with watts link in place of the panhard rod. A good friend of mine is a fitter an turner, but is into racing holdens. Instead of spending big bikkies on his engine, all his money went into the suspension (even though he is an engine builder, he didnt do much to the motor) His rear live axle setup before he sold the commodore to buy a torana was a 5 link with panhard and swaybar. His next step before the torana was presented for sale was to replace the panhard with a watts link, and that was going to be his completed rear suspension, then the motor was next. Very simple, easy to get info on and parts for, and quite effective. NO chance of binding either. Do this and the rear should be quite stable. Also, the 5 link with panhard was used in all live axle celicas with sucess, and the mounts can easily be attached to a hilux G series, as all angles used are 90degrees, no need to work out triangulation mount angles etc. From memory the cortina triangulated setups had the triangulated bars up the top, and were on an angle as if the were rolled to try and reduce the binding.

Cheers, Owen

[TheStitt]

The rear shocks in my car and on the MS112 have a top mount similar to the top mount on the front shocks in your car. Just a threaded pin sticking straight up. Gives a better range on movement.

They have a mount that fits to the shocker and then bolts up to the chassis. If you can measure between the bolt centres on the top shocker mount on your chassis I can measure these brackets to see if they will bolt straight up.

Cheers

These brackets that you are talking about shane???

Do they convert the rear set up of the MS55 and 3 and MS112 to the same set up as the front of these cars??

The MS53 and MS112 has the rear top shock mount has a bar thru it which is bolted to the chassis in 2 locations. Are you saying install this bracket, so that you no longer have the "bar" thru the top of the shock, and the shock set up becomes like the ftont. the shock is threaded and just gets bolted to the chassis.

forgive me as this is how I read it.

ok i'll get some pics going

These first two shots are of the top r/h shock showing the damage to it.



This next one the L/H shock showing what it should look like



Thge next 2 the L/H and R/H side top shock to chassis mounting point and hole on the R/H you can see what the twisting and moving did to the chassis. On these pics left is the fwd end of the chassis. So the fwd edge of the r/h shock mount has been chewed out



The last is a rear shot off the whole rear end.

[Lambolica]

Stitt,

I'm pretty sure that you can run a 5 link setup and still find a way around the issues you have with the panhard rod.

and I'm damn sure that using a watts link will solve it easily, and remove the issue of the diff swinging during suspension travel. Seeing that you are going custom anyway I don't see why it can't be kept clear of the exhaust.



If you flip this diagram and overlay it on the photo you have of the rear of the diff. that panhard rod sits way lower than the current one.

Second to that revise the location of the brace to mount the watts link plate and lift it (if the body allows and there is more room. And if you build the plate properly you could adjust the roll center very easily.

Would this still cause issues with you exhaust?

[TheStitt]

Ah i'm thinking watts is proabably the way to go if I want to avoid the panhard rod vs exhaust issues.

Also do you mean that the watts link on the exhaust saide is lower than the current panhard rod??

However that pic you have just posted is what I was thinking about lambolica.

I've only got a 3 or so inches of suspension travel so the suspension binding isn't a huge issue.

(I've got to go and talk to ppl that build these for a living and find out who can do it to my car. The current toymods one is flat out atm

[crownv8]

They let you out???

That damage looks like a bush failure. I would like to see what's left of the bush. The top bushes on these don't normally move, they just flex a little as the shock works. Your diff housing would have to be moving a lot to 'cause' this sort of thing, ie, bushes would have to completely shagged. Also, you mentioned the forward edge was damaged. If it was torque issues the shock would be forced backwards in the slot as this is the natural movement for a diff under acceleration. The diff tries to turn in the opposite direction of the wheels.

On further examination. These brackets I spoke of are only on the 80 series wagons. They don't even appear to be on the sedans of the same model. There is a guy on CC that is throwing an MS83 out. He may be able to remove them and post them to you. These brackets bolt into the holes already in your chassis and they have a larger centre hole for the shock bush. Basically, the shocker has a 'pin' mount up top and an 'eye' mount on the bottom, the same as the front shockers. I'll try to get some pics up of my set up.

Shane.

[TheStitt]

Shane that is a different set up on the Ms83 wagons that description that you just gave makes perfect sense.

The damage probably resulted from bush failure, however I think the bush failed because of the diff twist. The diff does move alot, Steve ship way had his right rear wheel hit the body work under load. He has alot more power but I do a lot of burn outs and hard launches then what he would do.

What I believe to be the problem which is the same as what steve ship way had (and solved with the use of an extra top arm) was that the diff is twisting around its one current upper arm, with the introduction of the LSD.

With the single spinner the left rear just breaks traction and you have no issues However with the introduction of the LSD the right wheel is now driving as hard as the left. The diff is twisting around the r/h upper arm and driving forwards on the right and its damaging that shock as the left side flexes back. As there in nothing really holding the left in place, the panhard rod bolts to the diff on the right and the upper arm as metioned is on the right. Only the left trailing arm really locates the left side of the diff.

What I found with the introduction of the LSD when I stepped off the line i found I always had to steer left. My belief is that that the diff is twisting around the r/h upper arm which is forcing the left slightly back and the right fwd. this is rear steering the rear of the car out to the left which is why I had to turn left to straighten the car.

When Installed the LSD and 112 rear end all the bushes where re done and replaced with harder nurathane. The upper arm even had an oversized bolt fitted where it joins the chassis. This was due to a previous owners screw up. Aswell as this all the shocks were replaced

Now above is my theory i haven't studied suspension before. Its based on the 2 ppl i know with high powered (another soon to be) MS5X's with LSD's in 112 rear ends. From what has happened to both cars this is what I can think is happening.

[crownv8]

Maybe I should do something with mine before I put it on the road?? I won't be worry about LSD for a while, but with what you are saying maybe some extra work now might pay of later.

I guess these chassis really weren't tested with decent engines. They went to IRS even before the 5m-ge. Now there's an idea??????

I may have to change my chassis anyway. I found that the car has been smashed and straightened. It may be right, but, the chassis has been damaged further by the way it was clamped onto the chassis aligner.

[TheStitt]

Depending on how hard you drive it and if you are going to go LSD, would determine for me wether to work it all or not.

IRS would be good but bag loads of fun to install.

Accident damage is why I did the chassis swap I don't want to trust a straightened chassis, I had access to one so that wasn't a prob can you get you get another chassis.