WTF!? Both fuel pumps dead at the same time? DIAGNOSED! PLEASE READ!

[ONCE-NA]

So, the Celica sits in the shed unloved after a conversion multi-epic fail. And I needed to move it out to get at some stuff today. The last time I moved it was approx 3 weeks ago and it went fine. Anyways, this arvo I went to start it and it wouldn't fire, tried a couple of times then realised I couldn't hear the fuel pumps priming when I bumped the key.

So I had a bit of a fiddle, the relay was still working. measured voltage at the pump terminals, that was fine. Measured current, together they were pulling about 400mA. But not running. So, WTF has happened? Main pump is a Bosch 040 from memory, and of unknown age. Lift pump is a Carter Black that would be lucky to have done 2 hours.

Only thing I can think of is they may be gummed up with some shit? Havent actually pulled them out to look. I fear i would be tempted to spray some fuel around and burn the fucking thing I'm so over it!

[Cuzzo]

haha. Remove the pumps and have a look inside.

Get to the wreckers and "borrow" a vl/vl turbo one to get it moving.

[NME308]

I had a VL commodore sitting under my house for 4 years till I finally got off my butt and registered it. By that time the inside of the fuel tank had gone rusty and fouled up 2 sets of fuel pumps in super quick order... Oh and a set of injectors for good measure!

Just so everyone is clear I no longer own a VL, it got the boot in favor of the TA23

[Hen]

I've had a Holley pump that has sounded like it's been on its way out for years. Sometimes it just doesn't run, but giving it a "tap" while it's switched on (supposed to be running) gets it going again.

I just tap increasingly hard until it works.

Hen

[ONCE-NA]

Okay pulled the pumps out, copious amounts of fuel spilt but I resisted the urge to ignite it.
The carter I pulled the chamber cover off to expose the impeller it wasn't turning. removed that, all clean. hooked up power and the motor shaft wouldn't turn, twisted it with the pliers a few times, it kicked a bit and started spinning freely. Now the actual motor body is pressed together so I cant realistally get it apart without fucking it, so I cant know what really went wrong. I'm assuming the brushes stuck.
But why? And the Bosch is all pressed together so I cant kick start it, tried pumping compressed air through it but to no avail. I'm assuming its the same problem. Unless they are brushless, in which case the bearings seized? But why? GRRRR!

[SillyCarS]

i have a vl turb pump that im not using, $50 if you wouldlike it

[jeffro ra28]

I know Bosch 040 pumps do not like to sit for any considerable period of time. Numerous occasions have had cars sitting to find the pumps shagged and its the first thing to look at.

The last one i had anything to do with shat 2 x 040 and a carter lifter pump all at once, was expensive i can tell you.

If you just want to move it, id take the VL turbo pump idea on board.

[ONCE-NA]

Problem diagnosed. I opened up the Bosch (It was an 090) with a hacksaw to discover a fair amount of corrosion of the commutator segments where the brushes were contacting. If I had of been able to spin it without taking the POS apart it would of got going and effectivly cleaned itself in use. Now the question begs, "Why?" it didn't take long, about 3 weeks since last use, maybe less. the pump sat low, well below the height of the surge tank outlet so should of been full of fuel the whole time. Shouldn't it need oxygen to cause corrosion? Is there something in fuel these days that isn't good for these style pumps?
(by the way, I didn't actually realise the fuel passed through every part of the motor till i pulled one apart!) And it doesn't entirely explain the failed Carter, as as far as I could tell fuel doesn't go through the motor.

[ONCE-NA]

Hmmm moisture (water) in the fuel? but how did it get there?

[jonnyincognito]

Was the tank full or near empty? I've been told if you let a fairly empty tank sit, moisture builds inside the tank from evaporation and condensation. Evaporates during the warm day, condenses at night. Collects on the walls inside the tank, then drips down and sinks to the bottom of the tank to be the first thing sucked up by your pickups. I guess that's how tanks also get rusty on the inside. Don't know if it's true, but makes logical sense...so I always store with a full tank!

[ONCE-NA]

It was just below quater, yeah that makes sense, expensive lesson though! Lol

[wa5]

Is it possible that the Carter lift pump failed, causing the others to run dry, thus allowing air into them, and helping them corrode .

(ONCE-NA)
I didn't actually realise the fuel passed through every part of the motor till i pulled one apart!)
(END)

Yep Fuel lubricates/ cools EFI pumps.

If the lift pump (Carter) was the only one to fail, both EFI pumps would run dry and may have seized

Do you have any filters before you pumps?

[ONCE-NA]

Nah the lst time I ran it it ran fine.
Have a filter pre lift and post efi.
I'll put a pic up later or 2moz. there was a fair amount of copper corrosion at the point where the brushes were left sitting on the commutator, effectivly insulating/isolating it. I think I'll try the keep the tank full approch and just run a vl pump untill I get around to driving it more often

[web]

And try getting rid of the water already in your tank/lines.

It separates quite easily from petrol once you have it out.

Just did that job on my TA12, it had been sitting without a fuel cap for a number of months at the seller's place.