wolf v500 Dead band settings for throttle Position Sensors

[OnAll-FOUR]

I have recently had a wolf v500 installed in my car and I'm trying to dial in the settings a bit.

Sometimes while driving when the throttle is closed, i have seen the throttle position sensor read up to 15% (scale 0-100%) while normally it is down around 3%. as a result I think the idle speed control isn't kicking in because it thinks the throttle is still open. one option is to increase the deadband of the throttle closed position to incase it does read 15% but I'm ot sure if that is the best way to do it.

I have noticed that the TPS also has a contact that closes when the throttle is closed. maybe there is a way to use that in the circut to make sure the signal is 0% when throttle is closed.

How reliable should the TPS sensor output be. Is mine a little dodgy?

One other thing I have noticed through the data logger is that the throttle position sensor reads almost 20% with the throttle closed when it is cold and starting. It then appears to decrease as the car warms up and gets down to the 3% level.

again, is this normal? is my Throttle position sensor a little suspect?

Cheers

[CrUZida]

That extra pin on the TPS is for the factory ecu, so it knows when the throttle is closed, so perhaps the resistance does change as it gets warmer, and thus affects its reading.

The idle end of the TPS is probably more important because the ecu is most likely programmed in MAP in the upper end, thus the TPS is just used for idle and tip in enrichment.

[Stefan]

Can you reconfigure it? On my Adaptronic, you have the throttle closed and select Set for 0%, then foot to the floor and select Set for 100%... then back off the resultant value for 100% so that WOT is archived slightly before maximum pedal throw. I don't think yours should even show 3% when your foot is off the pedal.

[OnAll-FOUR]

I was expecting 0% for closed throttle as well. I can reconfigure it, but it doesn't seem like a reliable signal.

I can understand what your saying for the WOT case, but Im not sure that works for closed throttle.

If you were to configure it so that the ECU doesn't the the throttle as open until say 5%.
9effectively changing the dead band) the problems would be if I actually have the throttle open at 4% it will go into the idle control with the throttle still open. I'm not sure how much of an issue that is?

Another Idea
ST185 TPS - sorry for the big pic



- e2 is ground
- VC is +5V
- IDL is a closed contact when the throttle plat hits the stop. opens at 0.7mm off the stop
- VTA is the TPS input to the ECU

I'm thinking if I put a jumper between VTA and IDL. this will ensure that when the throttle is closed and on the stop the TPS signal will be 0V (0ohms). otherwise when the IDL contact is open the TPS signal will be the resistance from the TPS?

[JP]

how's your loom wired and what are the grounds like?

If you're getting fluctuations like that on the TPS signal, I'd suspect the engine sensor/ECU ground might be a bit dodgey.

On the few aftermarket ECU's I have in my cars, the TPS, MAP, coolant temp, air temp sensors are all grounded through the ECU, then the ECU has it's own sensor ground wires which have specific grounding requirments to the engine block to prevent ground loops etc.

[OnAll-FOUR]

the loom is the OEM loom, the Wolf has a plug in adaptor.

But checking the earths is a good idea. I will give that a go as well.

[OnAll-FOUR]

Okay I played with it last night and is seems much better.

I thought I would try adjust the way it reads the TPS as you guys have sugested and now it seems almost perfect. I think I will need to go through and adjust the base Idle map though it seems way out.

I thought when you get a ECU tuned and set up by a workshop, they try all these things out? They did do a great job on the actuall tune, but it just seems they didn't pay much attention to everything else. Now I have to work out why they frigged my aircon.

Cheers

[YLD-16L]

I thought when you get a ECU tuned and set up by a workshop, they try all these things out? They did do a great job on the actuall tune, but it just seems they didn't pay much attention to everything else. Cheers

That's the case at most places unless you specifically state you want XYZ done and pay accordingly. Most people are thicker than two short planks and are happy with a WOT tune and then just put the rest of the poor ECU control down to the ECU being aftermarket regardless of brand or price.

You're a cluey bloke so you'll have no trouble working through the rest of the ECU parameters and getting it all set up perfectly You'll have fun and learn a lot too

Good to hear you got the TPS sorted.

[OnAll-FOUR]

I have heard people bag mouth aftermarket ecus and even my tuner when I spoke to him last said the wolf would have trouble with the idle because it is a high end unit not designed to run a car at idle. I nodded politely but thought it sounded like BS. after playing with the TPS i know it was BS. The wolf runs the car really well.

Half the reason I bought the ECU was so I could have some fun playing with it and setting it up. So I don't mind that

For future reference the setting I used was
- Below 5% the idle control is active
- Above 6% the idle control is disabled and reverts to the Engine core Temp Idle map.

[YLD-16L]

when I spoke to him last said the wolf would have trouble with the idle because it is a high end unit not designed to run a car at idle. I nodded politely but thought it sounded like BS. after playing with the TPS i know it was BS. The wolf runs the car really well.

Odd statement.

How did the power curve and AFR plot look after he tuned it?

[OnAll-FOUR]

This is the Dyno print out he provided.

AFR arn't shown on it which is probably not ideal, I do plan to give it a run at the toymods dyno day in Jan and they usually to have the AFRs shown.

But from what I have seen on the data logging I have played with in the wolf, on road driving the O2 sensor shows it as rich.

One of the first things I plan to do is get a wide band O2 and Air temp sensor as well. I forgot to question the fact that the Stock air temp sensor is in th AFM so when you remove it, the air temp sensor goes as well. And since I didn't specify it I guess he just did everything without it.

Same sort of deal for the O2 sensor. Except even though I have a narrow band sensor and the ECU supports them, he disabled the closed loop 14:1 mixture control. Is it worth me renabling it?

[YLD-16L]

This is the Dyno print out he provided.

AFR arn't shown on it which is probably not ideal, I do plan to give it a run at the toymods dyno day in Jan and they usually to have the AFRs shown.

But from what I have seen on the data logging I have played with in the wolf, on road driving the O2 sensor shows it as rich.

One of the first things I plan to do is get a wide band O2 and Air temp sensor as well. I forgot to question the fact that the Stock air temp sensor is in th AFM so when you remove it, the air temp sensor goes as well. And since I didn't specify it I guess he just did everything without it.

Same sort of deal for the O2 sensor. Except even though I have a narrow band sensor and the ECU supports them, he disabled the closed loop 14:1 mixture control. Is it worth me renabling it?

If it's like most workshops he'll have those runs you've got printed saved so you should be able to just politely ask for a print of one with the AFR plotted on it. Saves you having to wait a month to gather more info

If you're narrow band o2 sensor is in working order then there is no harm in running it to aid in light load cruise and idle mixtures.

You'll have fun once you get a wideband unit installed, they are a great tool.

[OnAll-FOUR]

Okay so a final update on this.

After increasing the dead band settings slightly the idle has improved greatly. The only problem was when the car is cold it still had a TPS signal of 40% which prevented the car going it the closed loop idle control and it was just running of the idle speed controller mapping table.

So to fix this I thought I would try my initial idea of using the idle contact described in the picture above. With the multimeter I checked all the impedance's between pins with different throttle positions and it all worked the way I expected. So with a little bit of soldering I put a jumper on my plug in loom and now the TPS is solidly 0 from start up and the car does enter the closed loop idle control.

However now when I bump the throttle it jumps from 0-40% pretty quickly when the car is cold so I will have to see if that is an issue.

Cheers