Rust

**o_man_ra23** · 08-02-2009, 12:38 AM

Web, you really need to see my 2 cars. My RA23 is fairly akin to random's car, and the more you cut out what you can see, the more that you can't see turns up. Mine was painted before I got it, which really didn't help me. My RA28 on the other hand... I saw it under the trim before I bought it, got it from a known collector, and paid what I would think was a rather reasonable price (much lower than the figures being thrown about for a good shell in this thread).

I seriously don't think you have spent much time with these old cars by the way you are posting. Although in saying that, you seem to actually know what you are talking about when it comes to repairs, but any of the repairs you are talking about, unless they are done to the sort of standard as Makela Auto Tuning (where you need a rust free shell as a donor), your just not going to be able to show me a shell which started out like this one, that I can not pick that it's been a repaired rustbucket within minutes.

Now, mr Random has said he will take on the challenge, and all the best to him. I think it will be a great learning curve for sheetmetal, and I hope the repair comes out as well as you say it will. But, it will never be as good as a car which started with a good shell in the first place.

So, if you can show me a repaired shell which didn't require a re-body with a good shell, that I can't pick very quickly from an un-repaired shell, then I will happily admit that this shell is worth the extra effort. Oh, and anyone seriously looking at the car will look UNDER it before they look at the paint, whether it be a potential purchaser, a show judge, or somebody just interested (I have knocked back a potential purchase based on the underside, and have become very interested in a now friend's car based on the excellent condition of his car's underside)

**web** · 12-02-2009, 10:05 PM

Well I'll stay out of this if all it'll get me is neg rep. Think you know better, fine. However after 12 years of owning and driving old Toyotas that hardly exist anymore in my rainy climate, I am not about to start taking advice about rust from some know-it-all in "The Sunshine State". I hope you can understand that - nothing personal, it's just a shame you believe you're an expert on rust as well as the many other things you ARE an expert on.

I have no idea who Makela Auto Tuning is, but if they need a complete rustfree donor shell to do any repairs, they are NOT what I would call an expert body shop. Even if the end result of their work looks top notch, there are shops around HERE that can deliver that type of work from scratch using flat sheet metal. Real expert bodyshops are able to make their own panels and you will NOT be able to tell the difference. I guess it takes a certain climate do develop that skill though - out of necessity. Not all of us have the luxury of living where cars hardly rust. By the way, I'd frown at the word "Tuning" in the name of any body resto shop. Do they even specialize in repairs, or mostly in custom fiberglass jobs?

Anyway all opinions have been heard here, so no point in further discussion.

**o_man_ra23** · 13-02-2009, 08:29 AM

http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=ga...licaturbo&g=13
That's Makela Auto Tuning's first attempt at a Celica. You tell me if they are what you would call an expert body shop (look at the other cars they have done too)

"Sunshine State"?? Fuck the media tell you fibbs!! I haven't seen sunshine for more than half a day at a time in the last month!! The average rainfall for the City I live in is about 1533mm a year, and it's not even the wettest in the area!! We have had 2 minor floods this year (since the start of January) which is fairly normal, if not considered dryish. Overnight we had nearly 100mm, and in the 3 years I have been here, I have seen more than that PER HOUR on a couple of occasions. After the first night of rain, the boot in my RA28 was FULL of water!! Oh, and the 3 cities I have lived in have all been very close to beaches, all had high heat and humidity, and all had extreme rainfall. Even without the rainfall, the salt air and heat alone will eat out a car before you can blink. And you say I have the luxury of cars hardly rusting?? I think you are ill informed. I had to get a car that was from over 2000kms away to get one that wasn't eaten out by rust.

EDIT: for your perusal, this is the averages for the city I live in.
http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climat...=site&lc=33045
Sunshine state my foot!! Actually they changed the slogan to the Smart State (which was a dumb idea if you ask me, but I think they might have been sued over the sunshine bit)

**WDE_BDY** · 13-02-2009, 08:51 AM

I don't think a bit of rain in Queensland really compares to the snow, ice and salted roads of the Netherlands. Followed quite a few car builds from there (particularly KP Starlets) and they resurrect cars that are barely recogniseable as cars apart from having 4 wheels. I suppose winters spent in heated garages with snow piling up outside give you the time to develop skills most of us can only dream about.

Callum

**o_man_ra23** · 13-02-2009, 09:12 AM

Then why is he trying to say the rain up there causes the rust?? And salt does it's most damage by drying. The expansion of the crystals when they change from a dissolved solid to a dry solid will move metal if it gets between creases and that action then also defeats the integrity of the paint on the surface, allowing oxygen to react with the iron in the steel, forming the iron-oxide we all know too well as rust.

I guess having the luxury of temperatures above freezing all year round allows us to wash the salt off our vehicles before the damage occurs, though that is normally just the case for sub 10 year old vehicles. The fact that our panel beaters are too busy replacing damaged panels on insurance covered accidents prevents us from having anyone I would call an expert panel beater up here. That and the sparse population wouldn't demand the sort of business which would grow from re-making vehicles using pressed sheet panels.

Random has the advantage of being in Brisbane, who's population dwarfs that of Mackay, though it is still considered a small city by international standards, and still doesn't really open up enough of a market for a high end panel shop. So the skills available aren't nearly as good. That saying, there is a sheet metal shop a bit north of Brisbane which is said to be quite good, though they can't match the complex shape of the outer skin of an early Celica door (sadly), though they have been said to make rocker sill replacements with the correct curve.

**the_random_hero** · 13-02-2009, 07:32 PM

Well guys, after all of this the decision has been made to sell the car - I'm moving to Japan in a few months time, can't afford to put two cars into storage and to be honest, I'm making a good profit off selling the car as is.
When I do get back, I'm planning on buying an AW11 and turning it into a track-only car - shouldn't have to worry about too much rust in that, being almost half the age of the TA.
Thankyou all for the input into this thread, I've learnt quite a bit.

**o_man_ra23** · 13-02-2009, 08:11 PM

It's a bugger that you have to sell. If you are going to be in Japan for more than 2 years, buy the car you want when you get there and register it in your name. Then you don't have to worry about import duties etc when you come back, as it will be a personal import. I would suggest getting something VERY new (new for us, old and cheap for the Japanese) as it will be worth a heck of a lot more when you get here than what you paid for it. You can decide after that whether you want to sell for a profit and buy an AW11, or keep the car and use it for your daily/track/whatever when you get back. Also, fill it full of aftermarket electronic goodies, as they are stupidly cheap over there secondhand.

**the_random_hero** · 13-02-2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by o_man_ra23

It's a bugger that you have to sell. If you are going to be in Japan for more than 2 years, buy the car you want when you get there and register it in your name. Then you don't have to worry about import duties etc when you come back, as it will be a personal import. I would suggest getting something VERY new (new for us, old and cheap for the Japanese) as it will be worth a heck of a lot more when you get here than what you paid for it. You can decide after that whether you want to sell for a profit and buy an AW11, or keep the car and use it for your daily/track/whatever when you get back. Also, fill it full of aftermarket electronic goodies, as they are stupidly cheap over there secondhand.

I'm only on a working holiday Visa, so a maximum of 1.5 years there - if I decide to stay there and get a proper Visa, then this is definitely an option for me.
I'm planning on bringing a suitcase or two back of gear, who wants to put in an order?

**web** · 13-02-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by WDE_BDY

I don't think a bit of rain in Queensland really compares to the snow, ice and salted roads of the Netherlands. Followed quite a few car builds from there (particularly KP Starlets) and they resurrect cars that are barely recogniseable as cars apart from having 4 wheels. I suppose winters spent in heated garages with snow piling up outside give you the time to develop skills most of us can only dream about.

Callum

Thanks for the support dude - I WAS going to mention the salt next, but yesterday I was like "oh well never mind..." not wanting to fuel the fire any further and just wanting out of a discussion that I thought was leading nowhere. So that's why I didn't bring in the salt, my bad. Maybe I also shouldn't have relied on media/government advertisement of Queensland either. Then again, there's still the salt as a difference.

I must be modest and admit true bodywork skills are rarish even here, and that good welders are less common here than they are on your side of the world, especially in the DIY category. The shoddy welds proudly posted on some local forums make me cringe, when I see so much better work on this forum.

It's true that we've had salt on the roads just about permanently since early november - that's 3.5 months and counting. Will it be 4, 5 or 6 this year? We'll see. It's not like it's extremely cold, we only had a few weeks of being able to skate on natural ice till now, but the government is just paranoid about road safety. Sometimes I just wish they'd let it snow or ice over, so people might learn how to DRIVE instead of having to rely on megatonnes of salt all the time.

**RA23** · 15-02-2009, 09:02 AM

I have lived in Australia and The Netherlands and web is right. For Dutch (north-west European) standards, that shell is very good and would be considered minor rust repairs for a TA22.
Oman, yes you are right, you may be able to find a better shell in Australia if you had the time, but you won't know for sure untill you have stripped it. Better the devil you know...

End of discussion.