Rust

[o_man_ra23]

Now in case you haven't noticed, all the spots the original poster detailed in pics, are in places you normally don't look.

Do the photos actually show on your PC?? Do you actually look at cars properly?? I have done repairs to my RA23 in the areas shown to be affected in this TA22... and although mine wasn't as rusty, it is still noticeable!! If a small patch (approx 2cm square by the time I cut out to good metal) on the A pillar will be 'noticeable' then replacing from halfway along the door back (if he is lucky) on both rocker sills, plus patching the inside too, will be VERY noticeable. The exterior metal which is ALWAYS looked at at any car show or event, or whenever trying to sell, is rooted in his sills and needs replacing. The underside is looked at at EVERY car show, and would need major repairs to come back to looking any good. Plus, the upper trailing arm mounting points are badly eaten, and will need to be re-fabricated to have any strength. Patching them would be disasterous.

I am not saying this car is un-repairable. Far from it. I am saying that the practicality of repairing this car, and spending 'big dollars' (as per random hero's admissions) on it to make it look nice, would be better spent on a better shell. I had the luxury of looking under trim and carpet in my car before purchase. Something I would suggest of anyone. And if you buy a car already painted in anticipation that it will be good underneath, you are gambling badly. The car should have as old a paint job as possible, because any repairs or problems will be shown up.

There was an RA28 sitting under a tarp in the weather in Townsville (hot, humid, next to the ocean, and with a strong wet season) for at least 3 years that I knew of, that had only minor rust appearing and a supremely stuffed paint job. Unfortunately the owner wanted new car price, even though the car was in pieces, the motor didn't run (and hadn't for a long time) and the interior was stuffed, so I didn't buy it.

I think the random hero has a choice to make. Does he want to perservere with this car, or find a better shell. Finding a better shell will involve careful inspection to ensure it doesn't have the same problems, or poor repairs. Repair of this car will involve a great learning experience working with sheet metal, but won't give as good a result, no matter how good you are!! (unless you work at Makela Auto Tuning) and even then, they had to re-body a Celica to fix the rust!!

[subtract_division]

Sup guys. I'm in the same process, and trying to re-do my body, and get rid of the rust. I have a ra21. I found a shell that has no rust for 700bucks. Will it be easier to cut up the spare shell and transfer it on the rusted body? Or will it be easier to cut squares and replace the rust spots? The roof of my celica has lots of rust. So i was thinking of cutting the roof off the rust-free body and welding it on my car. The only thing is about the rust free body, is that the engine bay firewall is cut up to fit a Lexus V-8. And i don't want to use that body.

[o_man_ra23]

You have a unique issue there subtract division. What about taking the firewall from the rusted vehicle and transferring it to the good body?? If you unstitch the welds carefully and transfer it, you should be able to do a rather neat job. The car would need all the identifications from the rusted shell, as the firewall stamping is difficult to change.

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Have you even LOOKED at the pics? These problem areas are so small... stop scaring this guy for no reason at all.
"A better one" in the ad will be just as bad in reality, we're talking 35 year old cars after all. If you're so terrified of every little speck of rust, buy a new car. You just gotta do it right - the ones that crack open after a month have bog applied directly over rust and such horrors. Do it right and you'll be fine.

The whole body needs to be stripped followed by extensive rust repairs and body work, rust prevention, painting, sanding etc... and the kid clearly isnt capable of doing that. Its a huge job thats my point, dont tell him its easy, this forum is full of unfinished projects, everyone thinks its so easy to restore a rusted out car.

[subtract_division]

That's a good Idea. Just to take the firewall off and re-attatch it to the rust-free body. BUT, there's always a but, my celica body w/rust is in the process of a motor swap. It will take alot more time to just stop everything, and focus on the rust-free body.

[subtract_division]

Oh my project will be finished before spring break. I have a very smart mechanic/body/engineer that's working on my car.

[o_man_ra23]

It will more than likely end up quicker to swap the firewall. If you buy the proper drill bit to un stitch it, then it will all come out in one nice piece, and then you don't have to worry about shaping up rust repair sections, or cutting them out uneven (which you will do). You can use the rusty shell in the meantime to dummy everything up, and once you have stitched into the good shell, you can respray it completely (including good underbody paint), then swap all the pre-aligned parts in and re-assemble the body. The rusty shell might be good for use as a body in a race car for later.

[ian]

some of the repairs mentioned in various threads state that they have bog that is falling out or blistering
this is only caused by moisture
most body filler is made from TALC , the same stuff that you but on babys bums
it designed to absorb moisture ,and thats exactly what it does on filler application
on the exterior it is protected from moisture by paint ,but if you have used filler to cover small holes etc , like many of us have done , unless its protected on the other side of the repair by sealing it etc it will bubble out eventualy
now to overcome this
use a high quality filler there was one on the market a while ago called PYRMO
it used glass micro beads instead of talc
it was a little exy but it was the best there was ,otherwise use microfibre glass its used in much the same way as filler ,and you can use filler over the top of it
ian

[the_random_hero]

some of the repairs mentioned in various threads state that they have bog that is falling out or blistering
this is only caused by moisture
most body filler is made from TALC , the same stuff that you but on babys bums
it designed to absorb moisture ,and thats exactly what it does on filler application
on the exterior it is protected from moisture by paint ,but if you have used filler to cover small holes etc , like many of us have done , unless its protected on the other side of the repair by sealing it etc it will bubble out eventualy
now to overcome this
use a high quality filler there was one on the market a while ago called PYRMO
it used glass micro beads instead of talc
it was a little exy but it was the best there was ,otherwise use microfibre glass its used in much the same way as filler ,and you can use filler over the top of it
ian

I've actually used something quite similar instead of bog on some fibreglassed sub boxes and it seems to work quite well.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion guys but I think I'm going to continue with this shell until it's either finished, or I find some more badly placed cancer and I'll just scrap it. I've got a couple of older Corolla's I've been offered for next to nothing, but then there's the lack of V8 available for them

[JZA70R_92]

another bog I use and recommend is RAGE gold made by evercoat easy sanding and water proof!! also to seal up floors and repairs from behind KBS coatings are similar to POR15 used it on my supra repairs!

Start at the back of the car and work your way to the front if you want to see really bad rust check out oldskoolford.co.uk lol they will think your celica shell is immaculate!

[web]

Do the photos actually show on your PC?? Do you actually look at cars properly??

Well I must be looking at different photos than you then. The ones I'm looking at, are at the beginning of this thread.

... then replacing from halfway along the door back (if he is lucky) on both rocker sills, plus patching the inside too, will be VERY noticeable.

Yup, definitely different pictures than I'm looking at. Mine only show a few 5cm holes and some minor surface rust plus a LOT of dirt. And ONE sill corner that needs a bit more work through lift/kerb damage. I'd say a 30cm length, which is actually not that important, replacing larger sections at once tends to look better than small patches anyway.

Even if so, most of that is under the car. Well okay if you want show trophies, it needs some attention to look right, but even from the factory the underside is a lot less smooth than the bits in normal sight. Granted, likely you will be able to TELL it's been repaired if you look UNDER the car. If you don't want that, it's going to take some more time.

Plus, the upper trailing arm mounting points are badly eaten, and will need to be re-fabricated to have any strength. Patching them would be disasterous.

Actually, that's the lower arm mounts, not upper, still assuming we are looking at the same photos. Especially with that V8 swap in mind, you want those done right. They're basically a simple box section connecting sill to frame rail though, so just chop the whole thing out and make a new one if it's as weakened as it looks. The fact both sides need done is actually an advantage - at least after repairs it will look the same left and right. A new box section there will look best and isn't even difficult, only needs attention paid to the alignment - you have to get the control arm bolt hole position exactly right, obviously. Use same thick gauge steel and put the factory drain holes back in, to make the new one last 30 years like the old, and look the part too.

I am not saying this car is un-repairable. Far from it. I am saying that the practicality of repairing this car, and spending 'big dollars' (as per random hero's admissions) on it to make it look nice, would be better spent on a better shell.

WHAT better shell? How are you going to find a perfect 35 year old shell, unless you buy one that's already been restored to trophy winning condition? And below, you've dismissed even that. Because you can't know what's underneath a fresh paintjob.

Also keep in mind most people that say they have a rust free car, just haven't had the interior out yet etc. There are less truly rust free examples out than we'd like to believe. Almost every car, even yours, will have its surprises when closely examining every inch of a stripped shell. Should we mind? No.

I had the luxury of looking under trim and carpet in my car before purchase. Something I would suggest of anyone.

"Hi there seller. Mind if I take the whole interior out of your car just to look underneath?"
Yeah, I can see this working.

And if you buy a car already painted in anticipation that it will be good underneath, you are gambling badly. The car should have as old a paint job as possible, because any repairs or problems will be shown up.

Good point, but then it will most likely require a costly respray anyway, along with paying through the nose for that *near* perfect shell that *still* needs a lot of work.

Repair of this car will involve a great learning experience working with sheet metal, but won't give as good a result, no matter how good you are!! (unless you work at Makela Auto Tuning) and even then, they had to re-body a Celica to fix the rust!!

I strongly disagree that the result can't be good. There are SO many much worse cars restored to better than new... even by people at home. It just needs patience, and being an experienced fabricator like random hero helps a LOT.

Remember he wants to seam weld the body etc... he's not looking to do a quickie respray and have a show winning car out of the box, like many projects that remain unfinished. He's modifying the body anyway. Fully seam welding the body, and doing it right, is a lot more work than those few rust repairs.

Really, this is peanuts. I've seen restorations being done where sections of roof had to be reconstructed, both wheel arches, door bottoms etc. Because those parts are in plain sight and painted shiny, those are the true time eaters - every imperfection shows.

[web]

That's a good Idea. Just to take the firewall off and re-attatch it to the rust-free body. BUT, there's always a but, my celica body w/rust is in the process of a motor swap. It will take alot more time to just stop everything, and focus on the rust-free body.

Compared to transferring a roof and other major body surgery, it's easy as pie to swap a done conversion over to another body... unless that conversion includes body mods, but usually only subframes and such are modified and will bolt right onto a different shell...

Really, I'd use the good shell in your case, especially roof repairs are hard to get right and permanent, and that includes transferring a whole roof from another car.

So much easier to swap over the engine conversion as a whole.

[web]

The whole body needs to be stripped followed by extensive rust repairs and body work, rust prevention, painting, sanding etc... and the kid clearly isnt capable of doing that. Its a huge job thats my point, dont tell him its easy, this forum is full of unfinished projects, everyone thinks its so easy to restore a rusted out car.

Stripping sanding painting etc is a huge job, you're right about that, but that would need to be done to a better shell too! Whichever shell, he's taking on a huge job and probably well aware of that.

The added work for this shell, a few rust repairs, don't add more than a couple of days to his existing seam welding plans. I really don't see the problem with that.

Though without his welding skills my advice might have been different.

To the OP I say: All the more reason to make it happen and prove the pessimists wrong, mate Just take the time to do it right and you won't be sorry. If you're looking to do a quickie, don't even start.

[MyToy Mx13]

Deleted Deleted

[the_random_hero]

Well, most of the front of the car is now off and I can't find anything else to get too concerned about just yet. There's a little bit of surface rust here and there, but nothing to really get worried about.
Buying some POR15 as we speak, getting bumper brackets and whatnot blasted then I'll paint them.
Keep the discussion going though, some of you guys know a huge amount and any bit of information is probably useful to somebody.