Rust

[the_random_hero]

ive seen alot worse.

mustve been a coastal ride.

the sills will be rooted/full of bog

if your short of funds, then conceal,hide,body deaden,tar up,bog up everywhere

what the inspector cant see wont hurt anybody

Amazingly, I can't find any bog in the car whatsoever. Sills are rusted to shit, but they are still mainly in one piece and haven't gone all the way through (yet).
I'm a bit of a perfectionist and planning on spending big dollars on this baby, so I think I'm going to cut it all out and new metal in there.
Now who wants to help me make a rotisserie....

[LeeRoy]

If your going to replace floor panels you'll need to swage them - basically make channels in them so they maintain rigidity. Flat metal will flex too easily.

[o_man_ra23]

If your going to replace floor panels you'll need to swage them - basically make channels in them so they maintain rigidity. Flat metal will flex too easily.

Agreed. The original metal was shaped like it was for a reason, and that was rigidity, and structural integrity. It will help the car to maintain shape both around corners and in the event of an accident.

[frostyadonis]

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and planning on spending big dollars on this baby....

the price difference between a completely shagged ta22 and a near mint one is 4k

i always say- its better to buy a goodun than a dog that bites your wallet

the bad ones are a great parts source.

you hardly ever see ta22s at the wreckers anymore

[concord.dawn]

My ke35 used to look like that, cost $5k for panelbeating, excluding paint

The panelbeater wasn't cheap /hr or efficient though.

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Sell and buy a better one - you have no idea the work involved in repairing something like that, and the panel beating that follows. There is a reason properly repared cars are rare, and bogged pos's are common. Just check out how many projects never make it on these forums - everyone thinks it so easy to repair rust and paint a car.

And chances are you will miss some and the rust will come back in a year. If you take it to a shop to get all the work done, the rust will come back in a month cause they dont prevent rust.

[JZA70R_92]

ive repaired rust on my escort, supra and I mean RUST like floor pans and heater bubble which still isnt finshed using a oxy welder. its easy if your willing to learn and do it. taking the easy way out by getting another shell which may be just as rusty as what you started with is not the answer unless you can see every part of the shell! and at least by fixing the current shell you will have saved another classic car from the crushers!

register on www.metalmeet.com lots of good stuff on there regarding metal shaping and welding..

[o_man_ra23]

As far as finding a good shell, it is possible!! You just need to be thorough when searching. My RA28 has rust around the hatch (normal) and a spot in the A pillar, plus a small bubble coming up behind the rear left wheel. Other than that, she is squeaky clean, and Lambolica can attest to that (even he was surprised how good it was).

But if you can save a classic and have the skills for it, then go for it. But a better shell will look better in the end than a repaired one.

[LeeRoy]

the price difference between a completely shagged ta22 and a near mint one is 4k

i always say- its better to buy a goodun than a dog that bites your wallet

the bad ones are a great parts source.

you hardly ever see ta22s at the wreckers anymore

I totally disagree.

Unless you buy a stripped to bare metal shell you are never going to know whether there is rust or not. Buying another car is a gamble - at the moment he knows what he has. Now he could go out and spend an extra $4K on another shell and end up exactly where he is now - but with the addition of an empty wallet.

[web]

Thankyou very much for all that advice, it's HUGELY appreciated. A lot of my welding experience has been on 4mm+ plate or tube, so it's going to be a huge learning step going to thin metal. I'm not extremely confident, but quite keen to learn.

Well get some scraps and start to practice And it's all gotta be clean bare metal, that's the most important thing.

I think a lot of the rust has come from a simple problem - leaky windows. It would explain why the rust is where it is, and supported by the fact there's more around the bungs in the footwells - the lowest point.

Definitely sounds like a likely cause. Knowing the cause helps to remain confident the rest of the body is essentially good.

I'm planning on remove a fair bit of the floorpan and replacing it with just flat steel, should make it easier to get to where the rust is along with being easy to do.
At the moment I'm thinking of cutting a good deal of the boot floor out (some is rusty) and replacing it with a slightly thicker flat piece instead of the wheel well. Other alternative is blasting the whole boot, POR15'ing and welding a piece of checkerplate in there to cover the whole thing.

A wire brush angle grinder attachment goes a long way removing surface rust fast. Only where pitted rust remains, or wire brushing takes a long time, replacement of metal is wise. If wire brushing clean takes long, the metal will be thinner and burn through easier with welding, even if perfectly clean. 0.6mm and up is weldable with a good welder (LOW current setting) and some practice, or using higher current and spot welding techniques. However if after brushing and sanding you have like 0.4mm left, it's a different story and it's probably best to cut back to healthier metal. Then again, even professional "no expense spared" restoration shops don't replace panels that are essentially healthy.

I'd say clean up what you have first, then see what you need to replace. At the stage of the pics above, you can't tell yet. You really have to clean up first. Also get rid of a strip of sound deadening along each sill (chisel it off) to see if the floor to sill seam is okay.

As others said: thick gauge flat panels may actually be weaker than the factory "ribbed" panels, and add a lot of weight, so I'd do that only where absolutely necessary.

I actually pressed ribs back into the repair piece needed in my drivers footwell, and after doing that, found I could no longer bend it! Goes to show ribbed thin plate can be stronger than flat thick. It's used from the factory for a good reason. I realise when replacing, flat panels are much easier to work with, but then do it only where the factory panels can't be saved.

[web]

you hardly ever see ta22s at the wreckers anymore

Any idea why? Cos everyone throws em away when they find a little rust. Getting rare even there. So I wouldn't immediately discourage fixing this little bit of rust... times change, there's a reason few are seen at the wreckers anymore.

[web]

Sell and buy a better one - you have no idea the work involved in repairing something like that,

Have you even LOOKED at the pics? These problem areas are so small... stop scaring this guy for no reason at all.
"A better one" in the ad will be just as bad in reality, we're talking 35 year old cars after all. If you're so terrified of every little speck of rust, buy a new car. You just gotta do it right - the ones that crack open after a month have bog applied directly over rust and such horrors. Do it right and you'll be fine.

[web]

As far as finding a good shell, it is possible!! You just need to be thorough when searching. My RA28 has rust around the hatch (normal) and a spot in the A pillar, plus a small bubble coming up behind the rear left wheel. Other than that, she is squeaky clean, and Lambolica can attest to that (even he was surprised how good it was).

Before you've tried a proper permanent repair on that A pillar spot, I don't wanna hear "my shell is better than yours"... it may LOOK a thousand times better NOW, but I'm talking potential.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but A pillar rust is a lot nastier than all "random hero"'s problem areas combined. Very likely to keep returning, and costly to repair properly.

Also hatch rust - "they all have it" doesn't make it any easier to repair properly, or prettier to the eye.

Now in case you haven't noticed, all the spots the original poster detailed in pics, are in places you normally don't look. So this "repaired" shell may actually end up looking better than yours.... for all I know. Because the repairs will be under the car, under the carpet etc. Your A-pillar on the other hand... see my point? Besides, with the hatch, the rear quarter area and the A-pillar repaired, do you think you could settle for less than a full respray? So if he were to buy a car like yours, he'd have to pay a lot of money for it, then repair it and then STILL pay for a full respray, if he wanted a truly rust free car. That's hoping the rest of the car is as nice underneath as it looks now. Wouldn't it be cheaper in the end, to repair what he already has? On the other hand, if he could find a shell good enough for his purpose to drive "as is", then of course you're right - that's cheaper than fixing the one he has. But you can't see under the carpet unless you've bought and stripped it.

I don't mean to be rude but I think people are dismissing the random hero's shell a bit too easily. No shell that needs a respray (which should be just about any shell you're likely to find of a '70s car in 2009) will end up cheaper. Also good rust repairs are quite possible, but they are a quite different art from engine swaps, and also something you won't find at the bodyshop with the lowest "full respray" price quote. To some extent, you get what you pay for in the body business, although there are always people overcharging for the same bo(d)g(e) job as the cheapies.

I once had a good body man replace a wheel arch on my car. He didn't source a replacement, he made it himself the old fashioned way. It looked as new, quite happy with it. 5 years of our rainy climate later, about the whole rest of the car had started rusting just about everywhere. Every crack, every seam, the other wheel arch... But that wheel arch replaced 5 years ago... was still in perfect shape.

My Carina on the other hand... a quick bog-and-spray job done a while back. I don't know how long, but the paint still looks fairly fresh. But chunks of bog are already falling out on two corners of the car, with large rust holes hidden underneath. A good example of how NOT to repair rust.

So... do it right and you'll be fine. And the reason quick resprays often fail is because they want to get on with their "real" (usually engine) project, so they don't take the time to do the bodywork properly. If it's not your thing, save up to have it done right, or buy a shell you're happy with "as is". Almost any shell you find today would need a respray eventually, so it isn't all that important to start with one as close to perfect as possible. Just try to find one that doesn't have rot in the hardest to repair areas. If certain key areas are rust free and bodywork is done right, rust is not likely to come back soon.

[5000gt]

gonna cost a lot either way.... best way.... get the car dipped.... you're then left with no hidden nasties.... make sure they neutralise the solution after the initial dip though... also makes it alot easier to work on when you have bare metal. Blasting is nearly as good, though it doesn't do in the jams and boxed sections.

[web]

Dipping / blasting can be good, but keep in mind you still have to paint/treat everything afterwards. Dipping strips everything to bare metal, also areas you can't reach. If you don't restore a good seal/finish EVERYWHERE, you're left with worse rust problems than before dipping.

Either do a wire brush cleanup and leave boxed sections that don't need work untouched, or find a way to paint inside every boxed section as well, and to get good coverage/adhesion even where you can't sand.

Another dip to prime the lot may be the answer to that, but then costs start adding up fast. And there will still be just one layer of primer on bare metal - not the kind of rust proofing that would last ages.

A series of dips is the kind of treatment for restoration of high dollar classics, you have to draw a line somewhere.