Laminova, a very different water to air cooler.

[web]

A quick glance at Laminova's webshop shows that 2F-ET cooler contains about 1000 AU$ in cores alone ... and then there's the fabrication work to build an intercooler around them.

Still needs to catch on a bit to see prices drop to competitive levels I guess...

[MattMc]

A quick glance at Laminova's webshop shows that 2F-ET cooler contains about 1000 AU$ in cores alone ... and then there's the fabrication work to build an intercooler around them.

Still needs to catch on a bit to see prices drop to competitive levels I guess...

These will never be a cheap eBay intercooler, however if you want to cool standing still it has to be air to water, if you want to cool off road with no chance of the intercooler core fracturing and drowning/destroying the engine it has to be Laminova. If you want the pinnacle of performance and inter-cooling, the cream of the cream then yes the wallet is going to much lighter. You do however get what you pay for.

Short flow lengths so minimal lag.
Negligible Pressure drop so the turbo is not working as hard to make pressure.
Both the above go to make max boost faster. If your making boost sooner your power is coming on faster. How much is an advantage over your competitors/rivals worth.

We have already made two 8 core intercoolers and the is the next project after the BMW at twin turbo LS1 one of the end plates pictured below.



Generic end plates, end caps are now available along with tubes and water splitters. Cores from time to time are available on eBay I picked all 4 of mine up for $50 out of the US, prices lately have been around the $50US each mark.







Oh and don't for get outstanding cooling

[MattMc]

The BMW is looking good too.

[love ke70]

glad to see this on here, cant wait to see how the BMW goes, just worried about the heatsoak, as OC said, not an issue in a daily drive, but i wanna see how well it goes on something that gets pushed pretty hard consistantly...

cheers, andrew

[MattMc]

glad to see this on here, cant wait to see how the BMW goes, just worried about the heatsoak, as OC said, not an issue in a daily drive, but i wanna see how well it goes on something that gets pushed pretty hard consistantly...

cheers, andrew

We have an MX5 Circuit racer on the horizon too that maybe more of an interest to you still.

Heat soak is only an issue if your heat exchanger/radiator is not up to the job.

[love ke70]

yeah, its just gonna depend how big the heat exchanger is gonna have to be to clear the heat out of the system.
dunno if anyone knows any sums to give me a ballpark...
if not ill be doing it by trial and error, mechanic gets back from holidays soon, ill have to have a serious chat with him about it

[web]

So this is another European product that is WAY cheaper if you buy it in the USA (ebay) instead of near the source? At 50$US each, these cores are definitely competitive, but wow... 1/5th of the manufacturers' webshop price??

BTW, note that both WTA and ATA coolers need fans for cooling when standing still.... the weakest link being the front mount radiator in both cases. Well, except if you bring ice to the start of the drags of course, for the WTA's advantage.

No vibration issues either, with 0.2mm thin aluminum fins? I'd hate to see them break up inside an engine... fortunately corrosion is not really an issue inside an intake - those of us in more humid climates know how older thin-fin alloy radiators and especially AC condensors can crumble to a fine metallic dust.

This is by no means intended to criticize you or your nice work - just exercising some skepticism towards a story that sounds much like a sales pitch for the sake of general wisdom. Hoping to form a more objective opinion, that's all.

[MattMc]

The cores are completely serviceable, take one out inspect and replace if necessary, and no vibration issues either.

I agree over time the fins will like all Aluminum oxidize but it's a slow process, this also depends on the grade/type of Aluminum too. I think they will out last like most Aluminum radiators the cars they are fitted too.
Internally you can run an anti corrosion additive suitable for Aluminum, this will also protect the heat exchanger assuming that's Aluminum too.

Your points are valid and your question fair but Audi believe they are good enough to fit to their R8 MTM as do Cadillac in their STS-V.

The reason you don't see these on many cars is purely cost, they are the cream of the cream in best sales pitch voice. Our end plates and generic designs means they can be fitted to any vehicle rather then the limited few and much cheaper. Even if you had to buy new cores from Laminova.

But as we all know when it comes to cars and parting people with their money for ultimate performance their are always those prepared to spend if they are passionate about them. How much usually is not the question but when will it be ready.

[BrianRA23]

Very nice work and an impressive outcome.

Does the water flow through the inch hole in the center as well as the smaller holes around it or just through the small holes?

Also, what is the point of the tube (used in the above boxes) that the core is inserted into and how much of the circumference does it cover in the areas exposed to air flow? I am unsure if
1. it is used to ensure the air must pass through the core and the gap between the tubes for each core is filled or
2. the tube gives helps to fix the width of the cooler box and prevent the box expanding when the end plates are attached.

If adjacent tubes are not joined to force airflow through the cores, is it possible for the cores are placed close enough to each other so that air is forced to go through the fins?

If I wished to use these cores and not have the serviceability aspect, can they be welded to the side plates instead of using machined end caps? A tank could then be attached to the end covering all the core water feed holes and a single fitting for the water to flow added (at each end). The end result would look not so impressive, but construction costs would make it a more viable alternative.

thanks

[MattMc]

Very nice work and an impressive outcome.

Does the water flow through the inch hole in the center as well as the smaller holes around it or just through the small holes?

Also, what is the point of the tube (used in the above boxes) that the core is inserted into and how much of the circumference does it cover in the areas exposed to air flow? I am unsure if
1. it is used to ensure the air must pass through the core and the gap between the tubes for each core is filled or
2. the tube gives helps to fix the width of the cooler box and prevent the box expanding when the end plates are attached.

If adjacent tubes are not joined to force airflow through the cores, is it possible for the cores are placed close enough to each other so that air is forced to go through the fins?

If I wished to use these cores and not have the serviceability aspect, can they be welded to the side plates instead of using machined end caps? A tank could then be attached to the end covering all the core water feed holes and a single fitting for the water to flow added (at each end). The end result would look not so impressive, but construction costs would make it a more viable alternative.

thanks

The water flows in at the end with all the small holes and out the end with the large hole the pic on the first post shows both ends of the cores.

The tubes are custom made for us and force the air into the fins and over and around the core, these heat exchanges will not work without them. Fit is +.05mm

Awill4x4 will be able to answer the question on welding them better than I, but from what I know they will be two thin. These cores are designed to be sealed with an O-Ring not welded.

[wagonist]

Is the reason for the 4 water/coolant inlets to get a better flow through the core?
Seems like a lot of plumbing fittings required at the inlet end if you have multiple tubes.

web, why do you think cooling fans are necessary? I agree they are a good idea for the best performance, as the most heatsoak occurs at idle whilst stationary, but I don't recall many factory Water-Air intercooled cars from Japan having them? And they experience what is close to the worst conditions. ie low speed/high idling time in traffic, high temps (high 30C & low 40C), with high humidity in the middle of their summer.

[MattMc]

Is the reason for the 4 water/coolant inlets to get a better flow through the core?
Seems like a lot of plumbing fittings required at the inlet end if you have multiple tubes.

web, why do you think cooling fans are necessary? I agree they are a good idea for the best performance, as the most heatsoak occurs at idle whilst stationary, but I don't recall many factory Water-Air intercooled cars from Japan having them? And they experience what is close to the worst conditions. ie low speed/high idling time in traffic, high temps (high 30C & low 40C), with high humidity in the middle of their summer.

The single end caps suit any configuration of intercooler core layout even custom 4 core ones. They also give exactly the same amount of flow to each core in conjunction with our water splitters, so no hot spots or temperature differentials inside the intercooler as we control the water paths and flow exactly.
Most other water to air intercoolers have issues here, it's no good just pumping water in one end and out the other. it will take the path of least resistance and in some designs not cool the whole intercooler efficiently.

On the two custom 8 cores we have made, custom end tanks were designed to split the flow evenly, but these only suit one design and therefore are very expensive to cad and machine as limited or one off runs.

The end caps are available in either dash 8 or hose-tail depending on your budget, dash 8 speed flow fittings can add hundreds of dollars, but if you want bling like everything it costs. The splitters are also available to suit both types of hose.

The current 12 core we are working on will have custom end tanks and again these will be a one off. The good news is once we have made them, the drawings are done and CNC programs written, so if we were ever to build another the same costs would be reduced a little.

The single end caps also take up less space at each end as the don't have the need for internal water passages to split the water reducing over all length. So they have some application advantages as well as been more cost effective.

[MattMc]

The BMW is almost completed, just need to drill and tap the end plates for the end caps.

[JustenGT8]

So the air flow path is thru all 4 laminova cores? You wouldn't stack them, say 2 high, to increase the x sectional flow area?

[MattMc]

So the air flow path is thru all 4 laminova cores? You wouldn't stack them, say 2 high, to increase the x sectional flow area?

Not sure if I understand your question, but to clarify, each core works in parallel so the air entering the intercooler is divided into four, a quarter of the air passing over each core. The air does not pass each core in series one after the other.

The BMW core is stepped so that as each core takes its share of the air, the space is decreased by 25% until the last core, correspondingly the out put is increased by 25%.

If you were to stack them you would need to use this design as in my intercooler so air can pass through each core in the same way.